# General beekeeping > Bee blether >  Martha Kearney

## prakel

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01t6nz6




> This series follows Martha Kearneys bee-keeping year and explores the science, art and culture of the honeybee  the most ingenious insect known to humankind. As a keen amateur with no training, Martha is determined to up her game and harvest her first ever crop of wildflower honey. Martha seeks expert help to improve her beekeeping skills and investigates the science behind these extraordinary creatures and their dramatic decline in the British countryside.

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## Jon

dramatic decline?
Here we go again.
Don't ya love the media.

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## fatshark

_"keen amateur with no training"_

Ho hum  :Mad:

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## Rosie

> dramatic decline?
> Here we go again.
> Don't ya love the media.


The wild honey bees declined 20 years ago.  Why does nobody in the media care about that?

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## Trog

> _"keen amateur with no training"_
> 
> Ho hum


Surely the majority of us are keen amateurs?

And I have no paper qualifications in beekeeping so that might count as 'no training' ...

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## fatshark

Hi Trog
Of course, training does not equal qualifications ...
Nothing at all wrong with being a keen amateur, and you're certainly correct it probably applies to many of us. However, the terms _keen amateur_ and _no training_ do appear a little contradictory. Perhaps I was hasty, but my view is that many amateurs rush headlong into keeping bees without getting enough training (not qualifications). It's pretty clear from looking at beginners going through our association that those that take advantage of the mentoring available, attend the winter talks on disease control, the talks at the conventions _etc etc_. are keen amateurs and, usually, end up as better beekeepers. Those that get bees as soon as possible, ignore the mentoring and never attend any talks often end up disappearing, leaving an un-inspected colony or two in the association apiary. I don't think I've got much in the way of paper qualifications, but I do my best to learn from the experienced people around me, from the RBI and from the commercial guys I know. I count all of that as training ...

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## prakel

Hi fatshark,




> I don't think I've got much in the way of paper qualifications, but I do my best to learn from the experienced people around me, from the RBI and from the commercial guys I know. I count all of that as training ...


Much the same perhaps as:





> As a keen amateur with no training, Martha is determined to up her game and harvest her first ever crop of wildflower honey. Martha seeks expert help to improve her beekeeping skills...


  :Smile:

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## fatshark

OK, I give up  :Smile:

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## prakel

I'm hoping that enough research has gone into this production to actually present a balanced overview. It would be a great shame to see such an opportunity squandered. 

The negative view of course is that the timing, four weeks starting mid April, will encourage a few prospective beekeepers to have a go -that may not be so beneficial (to me)  :Smile:

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## Bridget

This will have been recorded last year and then edited etc.  pity they can't be more up to the moment on these shows now everything is edited digitally.  Can't be impossible to film one week a month and show it the next week. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Jon

:Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): It does not bode well when the preamble includes the phrase 'dramatic decline' when there is in fact no dramatic decline. In fact people who can count would call it an increase!
There has been a significant increase in colony numbers this past few years according to none other than the BBKA and there were stories about London having too many beekeepers leading to a shortage of forage last year.

Trog. We are qualified as beekeepers to exactly the same level down to an identical weight of paper. What a coincidence.

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## drumgerry

Any idea when this is likely to be on? The link doesn't give any scheduling info unfortunately.  Despite the shortcomings I'd still like to see it!  It'll give me something to moan about if nothing else!

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## prakel

> Any idea when this is likely to be on? The link doesn't give any scheduling info unfortunately.  Despite the shortcomings I'd still like to see it!  It'll give me something to moan about if nothing else!


1st episode is on 14th of April, not sure of time though.

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## gavin

Martha K has an occasional blog here:

http://www.thewi.org.uk/campaigns/cu...rneys-bee-blog

She's been getting advice from John Everett - so I'm looking forward to a well-informed, interesting programme (despite the hyperbole dreamt up by the marketing department).

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## prakel

> 1st episode is on 14th of April, not sure of time though.


Episode 1. 
BBC4.
Monday 14th - 20:00
repeat, Tuesday 15th - 01:30

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## drumgerry

Thanks Prakel.  Should be an interesting watch.

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## Bumble

Did anybody else watch this programme? I missed it live, but watched it online.

I thought it was, on the whole, fairly good as an information programme for non beekeepers. I wish she had worn clean gloves though.

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## prakel

I too thought that it was a sound enough programme, certainly fit for purpose. Having read some of the band-wagon reviews which appeared just after the initial broadcast I thought that it must be total dross but glad to say that it was just the internet experts living up to their usual standard of nitpicking because they can do so much better.

I just hope that it doesn't encourage too many new beekeepers to start putting hives on my patch. Bee evangelist I'm not, more of a selfish, territorial beekeeper personally :Smile:

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## GRIZZLY

Did anyone see last nights offering on BBC4  ?. What a complete load of old tosh. Badly made and with very dodgy content. It seems that to move a W B C hive you have to run the bees and frames into a neuc then take the empty hive plus neuc to site and re-unite everything. Another way of doing things I suppose. We ended in the best traditions of "soaps" with Varroa and D.V.W. I wonder what next week will bring ?.

I moved Grizzly's new thread into this one. G.

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## greengumbo

> Did anyone see last nights offering on BBC4  ?. What a complete load of old tosh. Badly made and with very dodgy content. It seems that to move a W B C hive you have to run the bees and frames into a neuc then take the empty hive plus neuc to site and re-unite everything. Another way of doing things I suppose. We ended in the best traditions of "soaps" with Varroa and D.V.W. I wonder what next week will bring ?.
> 
> I moved Grizzly's new thread into this one. G.


Next weeks is on "Verroa" whatever they are, according to the website !

I missed it last night but I must admit that I am glad programs about beekeeping are getting airtime. Rather that than X factor or the Voice, regardless of the fact they may be a bit inaccurate. 

To be fair to the producers it must be almost impossible to avoid upsetting some beekeepers when making a program like this. Every beekeeper I have ever met has their own way of doing things !

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## madasafish

I watched last night - with my wife who is hardly interested except as an observer. Lots to criticise IF you are experienced - but for the uneducated (in bees!) mass of viewers, it made sensible viewing.. Yes, lots of errors (and Martha's gauntlets were so filthy they required to be burnt ) but it was a simplified and rather dumbed down program well worth watching - even if only to spot the errors and deliberate obvious lies... 

She has been keeping bees for a number of years  (So I read) so she is not as dumb about beekeeping as she tried to portray..presumably that was the producers.

Some nice photography....

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## drumgerry

I'm going to try really hard not to moan too much about this programme!  It's nice to see beekeeping on the screen for one thing.  Plus we had realistic statements about habitat and varroa.  Next week there's the prospect of neonics being covered so that'll be er......interesting.  One thing which did grate was her saying beekeeping has been her passion for some years and she just spotted the queen for herself for the first time in the episode!

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## drumgerry

Given last night's second episode I suspect Martha has been less than passionate about her beekeeping for the last ten years.  There - I've had a moan!  Sorry!

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## prakel

I'm beginning to wonder whether we're going to see a backlash from the otherwise uninformed against the so called traditional beekeepers and their practices. Pro swarm Heidi Herrmann next week sharing the programme with a Master beekeeper clipping wings which follows this week's look at bees gaffer-taped into tubes.

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## EK.Bee

If we're allowed to be a bit critical I'd say I was a bit disappointed by the emphasis put on "in fact a number of people die from bee stings every year" & the aggressive hive she is scared of
Yes a number but a very small number (less than 5 ?)out of a population of 63.23 million of us
I think you'd be six times or so more likely to be killed by lightning than a bee in the UK

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## drumgerry

I also suspect there'll be a less than critical evaluation of the so-called "sun" hives and their attendant nonsense but maybe I'm being unfair.  The thing is though - they could have made a great series by following an experienced charismatic beekeeper through a season.  Instead we have this with someone who basically disnae know her arse from her elbow when it comes to beekeeping.

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## Calum

yes, I caught that programme, good for growing roses.
Even my non beekeeping wife (who does put up with alot of my beekeeping blether) was noticing things that were incorrect.

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## Jon

Have you got a beekeeping wife as well Calum?  :Smile: 
Should have watched the programme with her instead!

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## Calum

Hi,
I'd say there are a couple of them on the side, mostly brown haired, a couple of redheads, - damnable buckies!
I think the wife has figured that out already...

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## The Drone Ranger

Martha opted for a Buckfast queen but its pity she didn't do something about the bad tempered hive after all
They are not making that much honey considering the rape fields surrounding them (21 lbs I think)
Anyway I'm pretty sure she could have done just as well with gentle bees

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## prakel

Sounds like there are a lot of five legged queens in some people's apiaries, could this be one of the reasons that there's alleged to be a lot of early supercedure compared to the past; cack-handed clipping? :Smile:

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## drumgerry

I have to admit my clipping wasn't always the best when I used little fly tying scissors.  I'm much improved now I'm using embroidery snips which I think cost about two quid from Ebay.

And re the Martha programme - I despair!  The fence post artificial swarm was the "pinnacle" of it this week to say nothing of the Heidi Hermann segment.

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## prakel

> I have to admit my clipping wasn't always the best when I used little fly tying scissors.  I'm much improved now I'm using embroidery snips which I think cost about two quid from Ebay.
> 
> And re the Martha programme - I despair!  The fence post artificial swarm was the "pinnacle" of it this week to say nothing of the Heidi Hermann segment.


Funnily enough my own progression was exactly the opposite from embroidery to fly tying scissors (some good ones on the market with relatively large bows suitable for old fingers that have suffered years of 'facing' the makiwara). I wonder if anyone ever actually uses those miniature sheep shear scissors that some firms are selling?

Heidi H. As I predicted, with the assistance of being edited into the slot straight after the Master beekeeper's ridiculous claim that a large proportion of clipped queens (I can't remember the exact wording) loose a back leg, came across as a far more balanced supporter of bee welfare.

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## Feckless Drone

[QUOTE=prakel;24879] I wonder if anyone ever actually uses those miniature sheep shear scissors that some firms are selling?

Yes, I use them and they work a treat. No worries about getting gloved fingers into the bows.

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## prakel

To be honest, the Master's demonstration was the first time I'd ever seen anyone clip a queen with gloves on; I look on gloves as a way to keep fingers clean of propolis/honey so that we can handle queens or put workers into cages etc.

I've often wondered how well those shears work, they look OK for sure.

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## drumgerry

I do all my marking and clipping gloved Prakel - unless from a mininuc where I go ungloved.  I use the kid gloves from Thornes and buy a size too small so that they're very snug fitting.  I'm not sure how anyone can work with bees with oversized gloves which are loose on the fingers - I need the dexterity of close fitting gloves if I'm going to use gloves at all.  For clipping and marking I use a crown of thorns cage which despite its reputation I can use very safely by clearing most of the bees from around the queen before putting it into position over her.  And the embroidery snips I mentioned are the little mini sheep shears.  Love them - I find them much better than scissors.  The flytying ones I had, had extremely fine, sharp ends which are needed when it comes to flytying but not so much for wing clipping  :Wink:

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## drumgerry

And another thing -  good flytying scissors are bleedin expensive and rather delicate.  Dropping them on a hard surface even the once can put paid to their useful life.

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## prakel

> For clipping and marking I use a crown of thorns cage which despite its reputation I can use very safely by clearing most of the bees from around the queen before putting it into position over her.


A major difference in methods there. I write from the perspective of someone who holds the queen in hand while clipping. No specific reason other than that's how I was originally shown. Lots of initial practice picking workers up -I was never sold on the idea of practicing on drones; if we're doing it this way it strikes me that we need to feel some kind of pressure to make sure sure that we're not fooling ourselves. Perfect practice makes Perfect  :Smile:  

Looks like these shears are quite popular.

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## drumgerry

I completely agree Prakel.  If you're picking queens up then generally bare handed is the only way to do it if you're going to avoid damaging her.  I don't handle queens too much to be honest.  Usually if I do it'll be something to do with my queen rearing and I'll be in and about a mininuc at the time.  Having said that I have "hatched" the occasional virgin on to my gloved hands before putting them where they need to be.

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## Calum

dont really see any need to clip at all any more.
If you are on top of the weekly checks, and not tearing out the queen cups you'll always know before a colony swarms.005.jpg. Saw this on a hive of a guy buying colonies from me on sunday. Perfect for the "lift" control method!.. Now to presuade my metalshop guy to make me some....

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## Rosie

I use bare hands for everything unless I have a particularly grumpy colony to deal with and fortunately they are few and far between these days.  I have a tendency to lose scissors though and have tried various ones as a result and they all seem to work adequately, even the scissors on a Micro Leathermans and a cheap Chinese look-alike.  However, I bought a shears type at the end of last season and this thread has reminded me to find it and finally put it in my bee tool box.  The advantage I can see with it is that when in use the lower blade is stationary so that it can be placed under and in contact with the wing so that the top one can be lowered over the wing tip without disturbing its position.  I try to do that with scissors but it's not so easy.

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## Neils

It's not getting any better  :Frown:  though after all that nonsense about swarming it is at least not getting any worse.

It does really make me worry that anything else I watch on the beeb that is supposedly factual contains as much nonsense as this, I just don't know any better 

Tying queens to gate posts and then tipping bees on them as an artificial swarm takes the biscuit though I suspect they were literally trying to create what a swarm looks like though that was really badly explained.

I get that it's a programme aimed at a wider audience than Beekeepers but you'd come out of that thinking we're all a bigger bunch of loonies than we already are.

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## drumgerry

It's interesting to see how the programme is perceived by non-beekeepers.  My OH's mum thinks it is great and, as an avid R4 listener where she has been exposed to Martha Kearney before, trusts that the information is accurate.  She has been most disappointed to hear my take on the programme!  Having said that the final espisode was a bit less objectionable I think.  But they were trying to do a River Cottage "let's sell our produce at a fete" type thing rather than doing much practical beekeeping.  I thought the scientist's explanation of the waggle dance was nicely done.

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## HJBee

It has boosted my confidence in my beekeeping abilities no end, for that alone I'm appreciative!

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## prakel

> It has boosted my confidence in my beekeeping abilities no end, for that alone I'm appreciative!


This has got to be a contender for 'Post of the Month'.

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## gavin

> This has got to be a contender for 'Post of the Month'.




^^^^^^^^^^

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## lindsay s

Hive Alive BBC2 Tuesday 15 July at 20.00 Marthas back on TV.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/lat...014/hive-alive

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## Neils

I will set my expectations low and hope for the best.

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## lindsay s

Only one more sleep till Hive Alive this is nearly as exciting as waiting for Santa. Heres more info.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04b7b70

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## prakel

> Hive Alive BBC2 Tuesday 15 July at 20.00 Martha’s back on TV.


Just managed to catch up with this latest offering. Very pleasant programme although I suppose the segment about the 'lost British race' and 'holy grail' of beekeeping was put in just to bring down the over-all quality "This one's pretty wild.....".

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