# UK Soap and Drama Discussion > EastEnders > Spoilers >  EastEnders Spoilers 15th - 19th June 2015

## storyseeker1

Monday 15th June 2015
Sharon and Kim prepare to battle it out at their themes night at The Albert. With Sharon up for the challenge, is Kim out of her depth?
Charlie and Ronnie prepare to belatedly celebrate their wedding night...

Tuesday 16th June 2015
Ronnie prepares for her romantic night in with Charlie but things don't go to plan and Roxy is to blame. 
Sharon's bingo night is a huge success but will Kim win the battle with a surprise plan?

Thursday 18th June 2015
It's a shocking night of revelations in Albert Square as a series of well hidden secrets finally come to light - but whose life will be turned upside down completely as Walford residents reminisce about the past? 

Friday 19th June 2015
The events from the previous day are still creating shockwaves.
Sonia is perplexed about the amount of food Liam is taking from the kitchen and it isn't long before the family make a discovery.

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Mittzy28 (11-06-2015), Perdita (03-06-2015), sarah c (03-06-2015), tammyy2j (08-06-2015)

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## Perdita

Different spoilers:

*Monday*

Itâs the day of Kush and Shabnamâs engagement party, but with tensions high, will all go to plan?

Tensions rise between Shirley and Dean.

Kim and Sharon make the final preparations for their themed nights at The Albert.


*Tuesday*

Ronnie attempts to put her relationship back on track.

Masood and Shabnam reach breaking point.


*Thursday*

Itâs a night of revelations in Albert Square as shocking truths come to light for Shirley, Dean and Buster but can they remain united?

Roxy and Ronnie come to blows.


*Friday*

Tensions are high at the Butchers as Sonia grows concerned about Liamâs behaviour.

Stacey and Martin continue to grow closer, but will they take things to the next step?

Buster and Vincent bond over being a father.

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tammyy2j (08-06-2015)

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## lizann

dean is still around, hoping one of the revelations is his rape confession

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Dazzle (05-06-2015), parkerman (05-06-2015), tammyy2j (08-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

Maybe, or possibly it's about Dean's daughter (Jade).  I know Shirley finds out where she lives, but it doesn't say whether or not she tells Dean. My guess is that she doesn't tell him for some reason, and he finds out.

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## storyseeker1

Recent spoilers: 

Dean Wicks will learn some life-changing information when Buster Briggs tells him that his daughter is alive. After witnessing a suspicious conversation between Buster and Masood Ahmed, Dean heads home and decides to confront his dad about what is going on. 

With Shirley nowhere to be found after retrieving Jade's address from Masood, Buster is forced to come clean with Dean as he tells him that his daughter is still alive and they know where she is.

Stunned, Dean insists on going to the address to find his child, but Shirley soon arrives and puts an end to the idea.

Later, when the pair are alone, Shirley lies and tells Dean that his daughter was adopted years ago and there is no way to contact her. How will Dean react?

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## storyseeker1

It says these spoilers will air on the 15th, so I'm guessing the revelations revealed on Thursday will be the truth about where Dean's daughter really is.  

I would NOT want to be Shirley on that day.

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## Perdita

Over on EastEnders, Dean Wicks will learn some life-changing information when Buster Briggs tells him that his daughter is alive.

Dean (Matt Di Angelo) has already discovered that Shabnam Masood gave birth to his baby following a one-night stand years ago, but he was left to believe that the newborn girl had died shortly after.

However, after witnessing a suspicious conversation between Buster (Karl Howman) and Masood Ahmed, Dean heads home and decides to confront his dad about what is going on. 

With Shirley nowhere to be found after retrieving Jade's address from Masood, Buster is forced to come clean with Dean as he tells him that his daughter is still alive and they know where she is.

Stunned, Dean insists on going to the address to find his child, but Shirley soon arrives and puts an end to the idea. 

Dean confronts Buster
Â© BBC
Dean confronts Buster

Buster tells Dean that his daughter is alive
Â© Channel 5
Buster tells Dean that his daughter is alive

Later, when the pair are alone, Shirley lies and tells Dean that his daughter was adopted years ago and there is no way to contact her. How will Dean react?

EastEnders airs these scenes on Monday, June 15 at 8pm on BBC One.

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## parkerman

Aaaah! Poor Dean. You have to feel sorry for him......

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Dazzle (07-06-2015)

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## Perdita

I am not taking sides with Dean and sure don't feel sorry for him, but can imagine that even vile rapists can develop some kind of paternal feelings when they discover that they are a father and would want to know more about their child ...

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## storyseeker1

Yeah, I get like that, too, watching him.  It was so much easier hating someone when the writers wrote them as a strictly bad guy, like that scum who was molesting Whitney when she was growing up, or even Derek Branning.  With Dean, though, they keep writing the other stories, like how he's dealing meeting his new dad, still feeling resentment to his mom for abandoning him as a child, and now finding out he has a child out there somewhere. You become so focused on the other stories that you forget that he's a dirty rapist and should be in prison.

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Dazzle (07-06-2015), lizann (07-06-2015), maidmarian (07-06-2015), parkerman (07-06-2015), tammyy2j (08-06-2015)

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## Dazzle

> You become so focused on the other stories that you forget that he's a dirty rapist and should be in prison.


And that's exactly the treatment that people object to!  We don't want to be manipulated into feeling sympathy for poor little hard-done-by Deanie-weanie...  :Angry: 

We get it, many rapists escape justice in real life, but that doesn't mean we want to watch Dean carrying on with his life as if nothing happened.  If he leaves the square then fair dos but there's no sign of this happening as yet.  However, I'm still holding out hope for this now fabled comeuppance DTC's talked about...  :Wal2l:

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maidmarian (07-06-2015), parkerman (07-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

Any mention of what kind of comeuppance that will be?  I'm going to take a guess that it's something to do with his daughter again. Like maybe she dies or she gets taken away from him forever.  Or maybe, just maybe, he finally wakes up from his delusion and admits that he did rape Linda, and confesses to the cops.

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maidmarian (07-06-2015)

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## Dazzle

> Any mention of what kind of comeuppance that will be?  I'm going to take a guess that it's something to do with his daughter again. Like maybe she dies or she gets taken away from him forever.  Or maybe, just maybe, he finally wakes up from his delusion and admits that he did rape Linda, and confesses to the cops.


It's anybody's guess what form the comeuppance will take (if it ever happens).  I hope there's some point to the Roya/Jade storyline and that it will eventually play a part in the rape plot.  Dean's very invested in the idea of having a child so to have her taken away would be a big blow to him. 

I don't think he's going to confess any time soon as he's shown absolutely no remorse for the rape.  He's well aware he's guilty though.

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## storyseeker1

> It's anybody's guess what form the comeuppance will take (if it ever happens).  I hope there's some point to the Roya/Jade storyline and that it will eventually play a part in the rape plot.  Dean's very invested in the idea of having a child so to have her taken away would be a big blow to him. 
> 
> I don't think he's going to confess any time soon as he's shown absolutely no remorse for the rape.  He's well aware he's guilty though.


I'm not sure. Up to now Dean looks as though he's still in complete denial, still insisting that he and Linda were a couple having an affair.  It looked like he was about to admit the truth when Linda went round to his place, after the charges were dropped, but just before it looked like he was about to confess, Mick showed up and interrupted them, and Dean went straight back into denial.

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maidmarian (07-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

> It's anybody's guess what form the comeuppance will take (if it ever happens).  I hope there's some point to the Roya/Jade storyline and that it will eventually play a part in the rape plot.  Dean's very invested in the idea of having a child so to have her taken away would be a big blow to him. 
> 
> I don't think he's going to confess any time soon as he's shown absolutely no remorse for the rape.  He's well aware he's guilty though.


I'm not sure. Up to now Dean looks as though he's still in complete denial, still insisting that he and Linda were a couple having an affair.  It looked like he was about to admit the truth when Linda went round to his place, after the charges were dropped, but just before it looked like he was about to confess, Mick showed up and interrupted them, and Dean went straight back into denial.

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maidmarian (07-06-2015)

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## maidmarian

> Yeah, I get like that, too, watching him.  It was so much easier hating someone when the writers wrote them as a strictly bad guy, like that scum who was molesting Whitney when she was growing up, or even Derek Branning.  With Dean, though, they keep writing the other stories, like how he's dealing meeting his new dad, still feeling resentment to his mom for abandoning him as a child, and now finding out he has a child out there somewhere. You become so focused on the other stories that you forget that he's a dirty rapist and should be in prison.


I think that soap management are hoping we
will forget?? But I think most viewers want the
rape story properly resolved..After the promises
- the end of story is now decided we are told.

I hope it is soon shown and is as promised-
and there is retribution - even if not a legal
one.!

Sorry hadnt realised other posts had made same
points before I sent mine

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## lizann

dean cant be redeemed no matter what dtc writes for him, losing the daughter he only discovered he has wont be a fair comeuppance for me

 could the daughter have the same illness jimbob had that killed him

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Dazzle (07-06-2015), maidmarian (07-06-2015), parkerman (07-06-2015), tammyy2j (08-06-2015)

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## Dazzle

> I'm not sure. Up to now Dean looks as though he's still in complete denial, still insisting that he and Linda were a couple having an affair.  It looked like he was about to admit the truth when Linda went round to his place, after the charges were dropped, but just before it looked like he was about to confess, Mick showed up and interrupted them, and Dean went straight back into denial.


Dean is neither deluded (in which case he'd be mentally ill) nor in denial and I think that's been made very clear.  He's a good actor and pretends what happened was an affair but the mask has slipped enough times to confirm an act is what it is.

The single biggest giveaway was when he gave his side of the story to Shirley. He told the truth (albeit with his own twisted spin on it) until Shirley asked if Linda had said no. There was a split-second hesitation and then he denied that she had. He clearly remembered Linda repeatedly saying no and the only reason to lie would be because he knew Shirley would realise he was guilty if he admitted the truth. There was no way to spin it his way so he left it out of the story.  This proves he's neither in denial nor deluded - he's simply a very good liar.

There's also the fact that Dean's been shown time and time again as being a misogynist who believes that women owe him.  He spiked Stacey's drink back when he was Deano, he cut off an ex's hair for dumping him. The way he spoke to Lauren when she dumped him was shocking.  He told Shirley that he can have any woman so why would he need to rape (the classic rapist's excuse) when we all know that rape is about power not sex.  He wanted to teach Linda a lesson (that he didn't accept her as the mother figure she was trying to be). That was made obvious in the episode and that's another reason why he can't have persuaded himself it was consensual.  His motive was hate not lust and those aren't two emotions you can confuse.




> dean cant be redeemed no matter what dtc writes for him, losing the daughter he only discovered he has wont be a fair comeuppance for me


I agree it won't be a fair comeuppance but I've given up on that happening now (unless Dean confesses, which I'm not holding my breath for).  Maybe the best we can hope for now is karma?




> could the daughter have the same illness jimbob had that killed him


That's a very good idea Liz, although I don't want a little girl to suffer in order to punish Dean.

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Dougie (08-06-2015), maidmarian (08-06-2015), parkerman (08-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

> Dean is neither deluded (in which case he'd be mentally ill) nor in denial and I think that's been made very clear.  He's a good actor and pretends what happened was an affair but the mask has slipped enough times to confirm an act is what it is.
> 
> The single biggest giveaway was when he gave his side of the story to Shirley. He told the truth (albeit with his own twisted spin on it) until Shirley asked if Linda had said no. There was a split-second hesitation and then he denied that she had. He clearly remembered Linda repeatedly saying no and the only reason to lie would be because he knew Shirley would realise he was guilty if he admitted the truth. There was no way to spin it his way so he left it out of the story.  This proves he's neither in denial nor deluded - he's simply a very good liar.
> 
> There's also the fact that Dean's been shown time and time again as being a misogynist who believes that women owe him.  He spiked Stacey's drink back when he was Deano, he cut off an ex's hair for dumping him. The way he spoke to Lauren when she dumped him was shocking.  He told Shirley that he can have any woman so why would he need to rape (the classic rapist's excuse) when we all know that rape is about power not sex.  He wanted to teach Linda a lesson (that he didn't accept her as the mother figure she was trying to be). That was made obvious in the episode and that's another reason why he can't have persuaded himself it was consensual.  His motive was hate not lust and those aren't two emotions you can confuse.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree it won't be a fair comeuppance but I've given up on that happening now (unless Dean confesses, which I'm not holding my breath for).  Maybe the best we can hope for now is karma?
> ...


Again I'm not sure. There was a scene where Stacey talked about the people she saw while in prison who refused to admit their guilt. They didn't do it because they thought they could get away with it, because they couldn't, but because they "needed" to believe it.  It's like when small kids in the playground do something wrong, and they adamantly insist  "it wasn't me!", and if they say the lie enough times they come to believe it themselves.  Dean's the same, as are countless other real live people.  I once heard of a man who was arrested for murder, who swore countless times that he didn't do it up to the point where he committed suicide to prove his innocence. Nearly everyone started to believe he really was innocent, only to be reminded that the guy was caught red-handed in the act. (Like I said, they delude themselves of their innocence, up to the point where they start to believe it themselves.)

I do believe that somewhere deep down Dean knows he's to blame, but he's buried it so far in his subconsciousness.  The scene with Linda seems to cooperate that idea, where it looked like he was finally coming out of his delusion and admit the truth.  It's the same with the other scenes that you mentioned. He's still deluded, but when angered he starts to show his true colours, but he still refuses to take blame. He only remembers what he wants to remember, and sees what he wants to see.  Like with Linda, he sees them as having an affair and her teasing him (saying no as a way to entice him), and not in the true way that she was fighting him. 

Of course I could be wrong. The mind's a funny thing, and to really understand these kind of people you have to have an advanced degree in psychology.  I only have some idea from watching countless criminal shows with deep complex and psychological plots. 

I do hope that he gets his comeuppance, but I just hope nothing happens to the kid, as I hate watching stories about children deaths and sufferings.

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parkerman (08-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

> Dean is neither deluded (in which case he'd be mentally ill) nor in denial and I think that's been made very clear.  He's a good actor and pretends what happened was an affair but the mask has slipped enough times to confirm an act is what it is.
> 
> The single biggest giveaway was when he gave his side of the story to Shirley. He told the truth (albeit with his own twisted spin on it) until Shirley asked if Linda had said no. There was a split-second hesitation and then he denied that she had. He clearly remembered Linda repeatedly saying no and the only reason to lie would be because he knew Shirley would realise he was guilty if he admitted the truth. There was no way to spin it his way so he left it out of the story.  This proves he's neither in denial nor deluded - he's simply a very good liar.
> 
> There's also the fact that Dean's been shown time and time again as being a misogynist who believes that women owe him.  He spiked Stacey's drink back when he was Deano, he cut off an ex's hair for dumping him. The way he spoke to Lauren when she dumped him was shocking.  He told Shirley that he can have any woman so why would he need to rape (the classic rapist's excuse) when we all know that rape is about power not sex.  He wanted to teach Linda a lesson (that he didn't accept her as the mother figure she was trying to be). That was made obvious in the episode and that's another reason why he can't have persuaded himself it was consensual.  His motive was hate not lust and those aren't two emotions you can confuse.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree it won't be a fair comeuppance but I've given up on that happening now (unless Dean confesses, which I'm not holding my breath for).  Maybe the best we can hope for now is karma?
> ...


Again I'm not sure. There was a scene where Stacey talked about the people she saw while in prison who refused to admit their guilt. They didn't do it because they thought they could get away with it, because they couldn't, but because they "needed" to believe it.  It's like when small kids in the playground do something wrong, and they adamantly insist  "it wasn't me!", and if they say the lie enough times they come to believe it themselves.  Dean's the same, as are countless other real live people.  I once heard of a man who was arrested for murder, who swore countless times that he didn't do it up to the point where he committed suicide to prove his innocence. Nearly everyone started to believe he really was innocent, only to be reminded that the guy was caught red-handed in the act. (Like I said, they delude themselves of their innocence, up to the point where they start to believe it themselves.)

I do believe that somewhere deep down Dean knows he's to blame, but he's buried it so far in his subconsciousness.  The scene with Linda seems to cooperate that idea, where it looked like he was finally coming out of his delusion and admit the truth.  It's the same with the other scenes that you mentioned. He's still deluded, but when angered he starts to show his true colours, but he still refuses to take blame. He only remembers what he wants to remember, and sees what he wants to see.  Like with Linda, he sees them as having an affair and her teasing him (saying no as a way to entice him), and not in the true way that she was fighting him. 

Of course I could be wrong. The mind's a funny thing, and to really understand these kind of people you have to have an advanced degree in psychology.  I only have some idea from watching countless criminal shows with deep complex and psychological plots. 

I do hope that he gets his comeuppance, but I just hope nothing happens to the kid, as I hate watching stories about children deaths and sufferings.

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## tammyy2j

> Dean is neither deluded (in which case he'd be mentally ill) nor in denial and I think that's been made very clear.  He's a good actor and pretends what happened was an affair but the mask has slipped enough times to confirm an act is what it is.
> 
> The single biggest giveaway was when he gave his side of the story to Shirley. He told the truth (albeit with his own twisted spin on it) until Shirley asked if Linda had said no. There was a split-second hesitation and then he denied that she had. He clearly remembered Linda repeatedly saying no and the only reason to lie would be because he knew Shirley would realise he was guilty if he admitted the truth. There was no way to spin it his way so he left it out of the story.  This proves he's neither in denial nor deluded - he's simply a very good liar.
> 
> There's also the fact that Dean's been shown time and time again as being a misogynist who believes that women owe him.  He spiked Stacey's drink back when he was Deano, he cut off an ex's hair for dumping him. The way he spoke to Lauren when she dumped him was shocking.  He told Shirley that he can have any woman so why would he need to rape (the classic rapist's excuse) when we all know that rape is about power not sex.  He wanted to teach Linda a lesson (that he didn't accept her as the mother figure she was trying to be). That was made obvious in the episode and that's another reason why he can't have persuaded himself it was consensual.  His motive was hate not lust and those aren't two emotions you can confuse.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree it won't be a fair comeuppance but I've given up on that happening now (unless Dean confesses, which I'm not holding my breath for).  Maybe the best we can hope for now is karma?
> ...


The only person to suffer to punish Dean, should be Dean himself  :Angry:

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Dazzle (08-06-2015), lizann (08-06-2015)

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## Dazzle

> Again I'm not sure. *There was a scene where Stacey talked about the people she saw while in prison who refused to admit their guilt. They didn't do it because they thought they could get away with it, because they couldn't, but because they "needed" to believe it.*  It's like when small kids in the playground do something wrong, and they adamantly insist  "it wasn't me!", and if they say the lie enough times they come to believe it themselves.  Dean's the same, as are countless other real live people.  I once heard of a man who was arrested for murder, who swore countless times that he didn't do it up to the point where he committed suicide to prove his innocence. Nearly everyone started to believe he really was innocent, only to be reminded that the guy was caught red-handed in the act. (Like I said, they delude themselves of their innocence, up to the point where they start to believe it themselves.)
> 
> I do believe that somewhere deep down Dean knows he's to blame, but he's buried it so far in his subconsciousness.  The scene with Linda seems to cooperate that idea, where it looked like he was finally coming out of his delusion and admit the truth.  It's the same with the other scenes that you mentioned. He's still deluded, but when angered he starts to show his true colours, but he still refuses to take blame. He only remembers what he wants to remember, and sees what he wants to see.  Like with Linda, he sees them as having an affair and her teasing him (saying no as a way to entice him), and not in the true way that she was fighting him.


I think you put up a good argument that Dean is deluded but I still don't buy it. 

Bit in bold: that can also be explained by him being a sociopath.  It's classic sociopathic behaviour to blame  everyone else.  They do not suffer from delusions, they simply spin the facts to suit themselves.

If he truly believed he'd done nothing wrong he'd have told Shirley the truth about Linda saying no but would have spun it in a similar way that you did above.  Remember he told the truth in every other aspect of his story. He made a cold-blooded decision to leave it out because he KNEW it would incriminate him. That isn't the action of an deluded man, it's what a self-aware criminal does to evade justice.  It was a very deliberate and telling omission.

I also remember clearly the arrogance with which he conducted himself at the police interview. Again, that wasn't the demeanour of an innocent man, but of a guilty man who knew the police had no evidence against him and revelled in the power it gave him. It also was clear to me that the copper knew he was lying through his teeth.

If we'd just seen the scenes of his protestations and self-pity in isolation I could understand people thinking he was deluded. However if you take ALL of his behaviour into account, this is not a man who believes he's innocent.  It's simply the behaviour of a deeply self-centred man who's covering his tracks

It's the arrogance, the gloating, the smugness, the cruelty, the threats, the bullying, the lack of remorse, the self-pity, the anger, the violence, that convince me Dean is a sociopath who doesn't need to hide from the truth because he feels no guilt about his actions.  He only hides the truth from the world because he's too much of a coward to face justice.

I do admit the writing's been inconsistent and confusing at times and I can see why people could be persuaded he's deluded and not a monster. Sometimes he's arrogant and cruel, and other times he believes he's the victim. Again, that can easily be explained by the fact he's a sociopath to whom other people's rights and feelings are trivial.  He therefore feels victimised because he can't grasp that Linda's experience at his hands was much worse than what he's experiencing.  Linda isn't worthy of sympathy because she's not important enough.

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parkerman (08-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

> I think you put up a good argument that Dean is deluded but I still don't buy it. 
> 
> Bit in bold: that can also be explained by him being a sociopath.  It's classic sociopathic behaviour to blame  everyone else.  They do not suffer from delusions, they simply spin the facts to suit themselves.
> 
> If he truly believed he'd done nothing wrong he'd have told Shirley the truth about Linda saying no but would have spun it in a similar way that you did above.  Remember he told the truth in every other aspect of his story. He made a cold-blooded decision to leave it out because he KNEW it would incriminate him. That isn't the action of an deluded man, it's what a self-aware criminal does to evade justice.  It was a very deliberate and telling omission.
> 
> I also remember clearly the arrogance with which he conducted himself at the police interview. Again, that wasn't the demeanour of an innocent man, but of a guilty man who knew the police had no evidence against him and revelled in the power it gave him. It also was clear to me that the copper knew he was lying through his teeth.
> 
> If we'd just seen the scenes of his protestations and self-pity in isolation I could understand people thinking he was deluded. However if you take ALL of his behaviour into account, this is not a man who believes he's innocent.  It's simply the behaviour of a deeply self-centred man who's covering his tracks
> ...


What's the difference between delusion and sociopath? They both make you nuts and end up with you not admitting the truth. 

Really?  It's been a while, but I remember Dean acting more scared and desperate at the police interview?  

Oh I never said he wasn't a monster, as he definitely is. Even if I'm right and he is deluded, that doesn't mean he's not dangerous.  In a way those type of people are more dangerous, as you never can tell when you're safe around them. They seem calm and normal, and then suddenly they attack without provocation.

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## storyseeker1

> I think you put up a good argument that Dean is deluded but I still don't buy it. 
> 
> Bit in bold: that can also be explained by him being a sociopath.  It's classic sociopathic behaviour to blame  everyone else.  They do not suffer from delusions, they simply spin the facts to suit themselves.
> 
> If he truly believed he'd done nothing wrong he'd have told Shirley the truth about Linda saying no but would have spun it in a similar way that you did above.  Remember he told the truth in every other aspect of his story. He made a cold-blooded decision to leave it out because he KNEW it would incriminate him. That isn't the action of an deluded man, it's what a self-aware criminal does to evade justice.  It was a very deliberate and telling omission.
> 
> I also remember clearly the arrogance with which he conducted himself at the police interview. Again, that wasn't the demeanour of an innocent man, but of a guilty man who knew the police had no evidence against him and revelled in the power it gave him. It also was clear to me that the copper knew he was lying through his teeth.
> 
> If we'd just seen the scenes of his protestations and self-pity in isolation I could understand people thinking he was deluded. However if you take ALL of his behaviour into account, this is not a man who believes he's innocent.  It's simply the behaviour of a deeply self-centred man who's covering his tracks
> ...


What's the difference between delusion and sociopath? They both make you nuts and end up with you not admitting the truth. 

Really?  It's been a while, but I remember Dean acting more scared and desperate at the police interview?  

Oh I never said he wasn't a monster, as he definitely is. Even if I'm right and he is deluded, that doesn't mean he's not dangerous.  In a way those type of people are more dangerous, as you never can tell when you're safe around them. They seem calm and normal, and then suddenly they attack without provocation.

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## Dazzle

> What's the difference between delusion and sociopath? They both make you nuts and end up with you not admitting the truth.


Delusional people are irrational, disorganised, neurotic and are not capable of functioning normally.  They're the textbook definition of psychotic (not the way we use that word to describe violent villains in soaps).  Sociopaths are rational, manipulative, charming, lacking in empathy or remorse and prone to anger. They're definitely not nuts.

Dean fits the latter description quite well in my opinion.  Remember he's rational and organised enough to run a successful business.

What we're both describing is actually pretty close on many points but I disagree that Dean's delusion is irrational.  I think it's very deliberate and cold-blooded.

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maidmarian (08-06-2015), parkerman (08-06-2015), Perdita (08-06-2015)

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## maidmarian

> Delusional people are irrational, disorganised, neurotic and are not capable of functioning normally.  They're the textbook definition of psychotic (not the way we use that word to describe violent villains in soaps).  Sociopaths are rational, manipulative, charming, lacking in empathy or remorse and prone to anger. They're definitely not nuts.
> 
> Dean fits the latter description quite well in my opinion.  Remember he's rational and organised enough to run a successful business.
> 
> What we're both describing is actually pretty close on many points but I disagree that Dean's delusion is irrational.  I think it's very deliberate and cold-blooded.


I can agree with the points you are making Dazzle.
But the real problem is that when writing about
mental( or physical ) illnesses /conditions the writers
go for dramatic licence and dont do enough research.

I know one persons version of an " illness" is never
completely 'text book" but there are general.
parameters . If they took more care they could
still have drama but it would be explicable
within the terms of the characters illness.

By being inconsistent and not planning
storylines in more detail - they ruin the effect
and provide misinformation which can foster
prejudice .I still think.theres an elemant of
" write as you go with this one"!

I dont know how they can conclude the storyline
in.a way thats believable and satisfactory. But I
wish they would do so SOON!

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Dazzle (08-06-2015), parkerman (08-06-2015)

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## maidmarian

Dupl

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## Dazzle

> I can agree with the points you are making Dazzle.
> But the real problem is that when writing about
> mental( or physical ) illnesses /conditions the writers
> go for dramatic licence and dont do enough research.
> 
> I know one persons version of an " illness" is never
> completely 'text book" but there are general.
> parameters . If they took more care they could
> still have drama but it would be explicable
> within the terms of the characters illness.


I've no idea if the writers have decided Dean's sociopathic (or deluded or whatever) because their thinking on this hasn't been hinted at as far as I'm aware.  That's just the conclusion to which I've come to explain his behaviour.  So they might well be making it up as they go along for all we know!

I agree that whatever the writers are thinking they usually don't do enough research and lean heavily on dramatic licence.  :Wal2l: 




> By being inconsistent and not planning
> storylines in more detail - they ruin the effect
> and provide misinformation which can foster
> prejudice


Which is exactly what this storyline is doing!  

There's a split between people who believe Dean's deluded (ie mentally ill) and between people who believe he knows exactly what he's doing.  There's a minority of fans in the former camp who sympathise with Dean and make excuses for the rape because the believe he's ill.  To them Dean is the _real_ victim.  It makes for very unpleasant reading!  :Angry: 

This is probably one of the reasons I'm so adamant that Dean is not living in some kind of fantasy land because I absolutely don't want there to be any reason to let him off the hook.  

(By the way, the posts I'm referring to are from other sites, so I hope I'm not coming across as accusing Storyseeker of excusing the rape because I know that's not the case.)




> I dont know how they can conclude the storyline
> in.a way thats believable and satisfactory. But I
> wish they would do so SOON!


I think we can all agree about that!!!  :Smile:

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maidmarian (08-06-2015), parkerman (08-06-2015), Perdita (08-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

I think the only thing we can do is basically just wait and see what the writers decide on (assuming they ever explain it). 

Another thing I remember was the way Dean acted around Linda after the rape.  Most rapists from what I know threaten them to make sure they don't tell on them, but with Dean he acted completely like what he and Linda had done was nothing more than a lovers affair, up to the point where I was starting to believe him myself if I hadn't seen the scene.  Again, this seems to collaborate on the delusional theory, but there are other things that would support sociopath as well.  Like I said, we'll just have to wait and see if the writers explain it. 

Oh I'm not sure about the writers not doing enough research.  I don't know if they did enough for this storyline, but in past stories they seem to do their homework.  I remember reading about when they were planning the Syed/homosexual story, about how a muslim man would cope being revealed as a homosexual in a traditional muslim family/community. Writers/BBC apparently did a questionnaire, asking various people from the muslim community their thoughts. 

Even if Dean is delusional, I don't view it as an illness. To me that's just an excuse. He should totally rot in jail! I just pity those of his family like Shirley and Buster who will have to deal with him going to jail if he did.  In a way, I think poor Stan died at the right time, as this would destroy him, having his family torn in part, and if he found out the truth then he would blame himself because he was the one who brought Dean back and into their lives in the first place. 

I wouldn't keep my hopes up for the conclusion anytime soon, though.  Danny Dyer (Mick) said in an interview, "The Linda Carter rape aftermath story might be around for a while yet after he suggested that Dean Wicksâ comeuppance may be a Christmas storyline.  Mattâs (Dean) gone off to have other storylines now. Heâs been really busy doing other stuff so it might be a Christmas thing again, Iâm not sure. I do think Dean needs to admit it at some point. It doesn't make it right, absolutely not, but he definitely needs to admit it.

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Dazzle (08-06-2015), maidmarian (08-06-2015)

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## Dazzle

> I think the only thing we can do is basically just wait and see what the writers decide on (assuming they ever explain it).


They probably won't explain it!  :Wal2l: 




> Another thing I remember was the way Dean acted around Linda after the rape.  Most rapists from what I know threaten them to make sure they don't tell on them, but with Dean he acted completely like what he and Linda had done was nothing more than a lovers affair, up to the point where I was starting to believe him myself if I hadn't seen the scene.


I took that as him trying to persuade Linda and that it wasn't actually rape, trying to make her doubt her memory.




> Even if Dean is delusional, I don't view it as an illness


Well being delusional and completely out of touch with reality is a mental illness and I view believing something so irrational as the rape being a consensual affair (it that _is_ what's going on) as on a par with that.  That's just my opinion of course and I could easily be wrong.  :Smile: 




> I do think Dean needs to admit it at some point. It doesn't make it right, absolutely not, but he definitely needs to admit it.


He absolutely does, if only so people will know Linda wasn't lying (which would do a world of good for her peace of mind).

Ughh...the thought of this going on until Christmas is hard to take.  :Thumbsdown: 

I think we actually agree more than we disagree.  :Smile:

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maidmarian (08-06-2015), parkerman (08-06-2015)

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## parkerman

Thank you both for a very interesting discussion. I think Dean's behaviour is open to different interpretations thanks to the way the script has been written. I personally tend to agree with Dazzle, but that's far from saying you are wrong, storyseeker1. It's a finely balanced argument in my view.

I think the problem has actually been due to a change of mind by DTC over what to do with Dean, rather than any deep psychological question. I think he is quite taken with Matt di Angelo as an actor and as a personality draw for a certain age group of viewers to keep up the viewing figures. In my opinion I feel that's why a fairly quick comeuppance as originally envisaged has been prolonged and Dean made into a more sympathetic character to attract and retain these viewers.

Personally I am appalled by the fact that Dean is still swanning around the Square with his "hard done by" personna still in tact and think he should be dealt with as soon as possible, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen any time soon.

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Dazzle (09-06-2015), maidmarian (08-06-2015), Perdita (08-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

Maybe. I don't know. The way Dean went on about their so-called affair, it really looked like he believed it, which could have been what the writers were hoping for.  Then again maybe not.  I give up trying to figure it now. I could be right, or you could be. Either way I'm just gonna wait and see what the writers come up with. 

I know there are some people who suffer from paranoid delusions, but I don't think Dean is that.  At most he is deluding himself that what happened wasn't rape and that he's innocent, but that is all. It's definitely not an illness he's got, it's just his own mind's way of running away from the truth. In a way he's a big kid who runs away from trouble, lying to the point where he starts to believe it himself. 

I know!  To think we have to go through another 6 months of this!

----------


## lizann

didn't dean threaten linda after the rape to keep quite or he would do it again

 maybe roya/jade isn't his kid but really mickey miller who wants to return, shabhs was drunk she mixed dean and mickey up

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## storyseeker1

Not that I can recall. I only remember Dean acting as though he and Linda had just had a lovers affair. I don't recall him ever threatening her, except perhaps in the rape itself, but it's been so long since I've seen either.

----------


## storyseeker1

Mickey Miller???  Ugh! I think that revelation would be enough to get Shabs back on the booze for life.

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## lizann

> Not that I can recall. I only remember Dean acting as though he and Linda had just had a lovers affair. I don't recall him ever threatening her, except perhaps in the rape itself, but it's been so long since I've seen either.


 i recall one scene of dean coming to the pub and threatening linda by the stairs soon after the rape

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Dazzle (09-06-2015)

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## lizann

> Not that I can recall. I only remember Dean acting as though he and Linda had just had a lovers affair. I don't recall him ever threatening her, except perhaps in the rape itself, but it's been so long since I've seen either.


 i recall one scene of dean coming to the pub and threatening linda by the stairs soon after the rape

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## storyseeker1

Sorry. Can't remember.  I know he started getting angry when Linda said to everyone that he raped her, but I cant remember all the scenes.

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## tammyy2j

Stacey Branning will struggle to control her emotions next week as she becomes increasingly jealous of Kush Kazemi's relationship with Shabnam Masood.

Stacey (Lacey Turner) will find her problems intensifying when Shabnam Masood moves in with her, unaware of the growing tension between her friend and her fiancÃ©.

As the day of his engagement party arrives, Kush (Davood Ghadami) finds his loyalties are torn as Shabnam fails to see eye to eye with his mother Carmel over the decorations.


Later, when Kush is sent to Stacey's flat on an errand, he soon finds himself struggling to resist her, despite the fact that his engagement party is due to begin.

With the party well underway, Kush soon finds himself in an awkward situation when Shabnam (Rakhee Thakrar) explains that Kush will be having a night in for his 30th birthday as it will be Ramadan. 

After struggling through the party, Stacey later confronts Kush about what is going on between them, but their conversation is interrupted when they hear shouting. 

As the week goes on, Shabnam finds herself moving in with Stacey as the tension between her and Masood increases, while Kush finds himself struggling with Ramadan.

With Stacey struggling to be around Kush and Shabnam, she finds herself bonding with Martin at the allotments, but is soon forced to leave when he grows flirty once again.

Back at the flat, Stacey's jealousy increases when she spots a happy Kush and Shabnam, prompting her to make a surprising decision. Will she regret it?


EastEnders airs these scenes next week on BBC One.

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lizann (09-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

MORE SPOILERS

Dean finds out about Shabnam's lie concerning their daughter and ends up exposing her in front of all her friends and family at her engagement party.  

Shabnam confronts Masood about how Dean learned the truth. Father and daughter have another huge row, culminating in Shabnam deciding that she doesn't want Masood at the wedding and that she can no longer live with him, and she ends up staying at Stacey's. More trouble also seems to be brewing when Dean insists on visiting the foster family tomorrow, despite Shirley's pleas for him to leave them alone.  (Seriously Shirl, what did you think Dean was gonna do???)

Shirley is forced to admit that she did meet Dean's daughter and explains her reasoning. She comes clean about her fears and Buster takes surprising action afterwards.  As the night continues, Dean overhears Shirley and Buster's conversation and demands to know what they're hiding from him. Dean gives Shirley some home truths about her parenting and then heads off to Blades, where he finally snaps before breaking down in Buster's arms.  Shirley comes to a decision and tells Dean that they can head off to his daughter's address together. When they arrive, Shirley asks the foster father for a DNA test so they can prove Dean is the father, but will he agree?

After seeing a different side to Dean following his outburst in Blades, Buster attempts to talk to Shirley but has no luck.  (Maybe Buster is finally seeing the light about Dean)

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lizann (09-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

MORE SPOILERS

Dean finds out about Shabnam's lie concerning their daughter and ends up exposing her in front of all her friends and family at her engagement party.  

Shabnam confronts Masood about how Dean learned the truth. Father and daughter have another huge row, culminating in Shabnam deciding that she doesn't want Masood at the wedding and that she can no longer live with him, and she ends up staying at Stacey's. More trouble also seems to be brewing when Dean insists on visiting the foster family tomorrow, despite Shirley's pleas for him to leave them alone.  (Seriously Shirl, what did you think Dean was gonna do???)

Shirley is forced to admit that she did meet Dean's daughter and explains her reasoning. She comes clean about her fears and Buster takes surprising action afterwards.  As the night continues, Dean overhears Shirley and Buster's conversation and demands to know what they're hiding from him. Dean gives Shirley some home truths about her parenting and then heads off to Blades, where he finally snaps before breaking down in Buster's arms.  Shirley comes to a decision and tells Dean that they can head off to his daughter's address together. When they arrive, Shirley asks the foster father for a DNA test so they can prove Dean is the father, but will he agree?

After seeing a different side to Dean following his outburst in Blades, Buster attempts to talk to Shirley but has no luck.  (Maybe Buster is finally seeing the light about Dean)

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## Perdita

*Airs Monday, Jun 15 2015 at 20:00 BST on BBC One*

The day of Kush and Shabnam's engagement party has arrived, but Carmel and Shabnam continue to clash over the plans. Kush also finds himself unable to resist Stacey when he is sent to her flat on an errand.

At the same time, Dean is worried when Shirley is nowhere to be found after getting the address from Masood. He confronts Buster and is shocked to hear that his daughter is still alive. Dean insists on going along to the address too, but Shirley soon returns and lies that his daughter was adopted years ago and there is no way to contact her.

Furious over Shabnam's deception, Dean storms over to the engagement party and confronts her in front of her friends and family...

Dean confronts Shabnam about their child.
Â© BBC
Dean confronts Shabnam about their child

Meanwhile, Kim and Sharon prepare for their themed nights at The Albert, but it seems that Kim could be out of her depth. Whitney remains worried about Carol and tries to get her out for the night, so she enlists some help from Billy. Once they're at The Albert, Carol and Billy both realise they've been played.

Elsewhere, Charlie asks to be alone with Ronnie for the night. Later, Roxy finds Ronnie crying and learns that she wants to celebrate her wedding night as they didn't have the chance before. Is Ronnie really ready for this step?


*Airs Tuesday, Jun 16 2015 at 19:30 BST on BBC One*

Dean's revelations about Shabnam shock everyone at the engagement party. Once they're back home, Shabnam confronts Masood about how Dean learned the truth. Father and daughter have another huge row, culminating in Shabnam deciding that she doesn't want Masood at the wedding.

Shabnam tells Kush that she can no longer live with Masood and she ends up staying at Stacey's. More trouble also seems to be brewing when Dean insists on visiting the foster family tomorrow, despite Shirley's pleas for him to leave them alone.

Dean quizzes Shirley about her visit 
Â© BBC
Dean quizzes Shirley about her visit

Meanwhile, Ronnie's plans for a romantic night with Charlie are interrupted when she receives a phone call from Sharon, who wants her to collect a drunken Roxy from The Albert. Ronnie ignores the request, but as they're settling down for the night, she soon finds herself alone when Charlie is called to get Roxy instead. When Ronnie hears Roxy arrive home with a man, she thinks her worst fears have come true.

Elsewhere, Sharon's singles bingo event is a big success, but Kim is still having trouble. Can Kim's secret surprise get things back on track?

Also today, Carol and Buster bond at the bingo event, but could there be problems when when Shirley misinterprets the situation?




*Airs Thursday, Jun 18 2015 at 19:30 BST on BBC One*

A night of revelations on Albert Square kicks off when Buster confronts Shirley about her recent behaviour. Shirley is forced to admit that she did meet Dean's daughter and explains her reasoning. She comes clean about her fears and Buster takes surprising action afterwards.

As the night continues, Dean overhears Shirley and Buster's conversation and demands to know what they're hiding from him. Dean gives Shirley some home truths about her parenting and then heads off to Blades, where he finally snaps before breaking down in Buster's arms.

Shirley opens up about her fears
Â© BBC
Shirley opens up about her fears

After reminiscing about the past with Denise, Shirley comes to a decision and tells Dean that they can head off to his daughter's address together. When they arrive, Shirley asks the foster father for a DNA test so they can prove Dean is the father, but will he agree?

Meanwhile, Roxy and Ronnie come to blows.


*Airs Friday, Jun 19 2015 at 20:00 BST on BBC One*

Kush is struggling with taking part in Ramadan, but he has to remember that he's doing it for Shabnam. Masood invites him over for dinner on his own, but Kush proves his loyalty by standing by Shabnam. 

Later, Martin invites Stacey to help at the allotment and she eventually does so despite some hestitation. The pair open up about their past, but the atmosphere turns frosty when Martin gets flirty again and Stacey leaves. Back at the flat, Stacey spots Shabnam and Kush happy together, but how will she react?

Stacey can't bear to see Shabnam and Kush playing around
Â© BBC
Stacey can't bear to see Shabnam and Kush

Meanwhile, Buster promises to help Carol fix her dad's motorbike. He also bonds with Vincent over a game of chess. After seeing a different side to Dean following his outburst in Blades, Buster attempts to talk to Shirley but has no luck.

Elsewhere, Sonia is baffled when she realises that Liam has been taking large amounts of food from the kitchen. Carol insists that nothing is wrong, but Sonia confronts Liam regardless. This sparks a huge row between Sonia and Carol.

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lizann (09-06-2015), tammyy2j (09-06-2015)

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## parkerman

Interesting comment by David Brown in the Radio Times previewing next week's episodes. He says, "It's hard to know what to make of Dean's storyline. He's giving Shirley some home truths about parenting and breaking down in Buster's arms. OK, he's emotionally damaged. But are we now supposed to have empathy for the guy who raped Linda?"

Seems it's not just us who are a bit disturbed by the way this story is turning out.

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Dazzle (09-06-2015), lizann (09-06-2015), maidmarian (09-06-2015), tammyy2j (09-06-2015)

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## tammyy2j

Liam knows where Cindy is

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## parkerman

ooops. Sorry. My mistake. Forget what I said even though you can't see it now because I've deleted it!

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tammyy2j (09-06-2015)

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## tammyy2j

> Yes. He said he did last night.


If she taking food from his place for her, she must be close maybe the allotments hiding out

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## Dazzle

> I think the problem has actually been due to a change of mind by DTC over what to do with Dean, rather than any deep psychological question.


I think you're right!  :Embarrassment: 




> I know there are some people who suffer from paranoid delusions, but I don't think Dean is that.  At most he is deluding himself that what happened wasn't rape and that he's innocent, but that is all. It's definitely not an illness he's got, it's just his own mind's way of running away from the truth. In a way he's a big kid who runs away from trouble, lying to the point where he starts to believe it himself.


Yes I see what you mean.  When we were talking about delusions I meant something along the lines of the following definition:

*"An idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder."*

but you meant what I would call being in denial.  This discussion has left me thoroughly confused!  :Big Grin: 




> i recall one scene of dean coming to the pub and threatening linda by the stairs soon after the rape


Yes I think that happened a few days later.

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maidmarian (09-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

The worst thing is that I like the current stories with Dean, involving his daughter etc.  I enjoy watching him, yet it's hard because every time I keep remembering, "Hello! He's a rapist!"  Damn it! Why did the writers have to write this rape story???

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## Dazzle

> The worst thing is that I like the current stories with Dean, involving his daughter etc.  I enjoy watching him, yet it's hard because every time I keep remembering, "Hello! He's a rapist!"  Damn it! Why did the writers have to write this rape story???


I wish I could forget he's a rapist!  I agree the story's good but it's being spoiled for me by the involvement of Dean (and Shirley to a lesser extent).

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lizann (11-06-2015), maidmarian (10-06-2015), tammyy2j (12-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

Oh no.  I knew it.  I just had a feeling that this was the way the writers were gonna go.  (It's Eastenders. Everything ends in tragedy, so I don't know why I'm surprised.)

Poor little Jade has got CF (what Dean's brother Jimbo had).  At least I'm assuming that's what she's got.  

It looks like we were right in one of our assumptions.  Dean's comeuppance looks to be having to watch his own daughter suffer and die before him.  This is obviously the ''very upsetting'' storyline that Nitin Ganatra (Masood) was talking about in his recent interview, about what's in store for Xmas.  

Ohh, I don't think I can watch this.  I hate children's deaths!

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## tammyy2j

I think Shabham does care deeply about Roya/Jade she is trying to block her out by focusing on her religion and now the wedding, she had kept the newspaper article so long about her 

Mas is going about this all wrong, he should be trying to first speak with Shabham and try to get her to open up instead of chasing after Roya/Jade himself and now sending Shirley. The estate and male figure don't look much but she could be in a loving home others besides blood relatives can love a child Mas. 

If Jade/Roya does die from cystic fibrosis same as Jimbo, this isn't only a punishment/comeuppance for Dean but also Shabham, Massod and Shirley and other family members suffer too.  I don't think after a crime such as rape this a is a severe or good final justice and comeuppance for Dean Wicks.  :Angry:

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Dazzle (13-06-2015), lizann (13-06-2015), maidmarian (12-06-2015)

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## parkerman

I'm beginning to despair of any justice for Dean.

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Dazzle (13-06-2015), Glen1 (13-06-2015), lizann (13-06-2015), maidmarian (13-06-2015), tammyy2j (13-06-2015)

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## Dazzle

> I don't think after a crime such as rape this a is a severe or good final justice and comeuppance for Dean Wicks.


Agreed.  Maybe it'll lead him to re-evaluate his life and confess?  (No, I won't be holding my breath either.)  :Wal2l: 

The only justice that will truly satisfy me will be for Dean to be punished for the rape* itself and for his guilt to become common knowledge (to exonerate Linda of any wrongdoing).

I can't deny I'd enjoy watching Dean suffer (whatever the reason), but if it's only going to happen through the death of a little girl I'll be outraged.  :Angry: 

{* Or other rape(s) if it were to be discovered he was a serial offender.}

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Glen1 (13-06-2015), parkerman (13-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

> I don't think after a crime such as rape this a is a severe or good final justice and comeuppance for Dean Wicks.


I disagree with that comment completely, as watching your own child suffer and die is a fate worse than death for any parent.  When my dad was diagnosed with leukaemia, I would go with him to the hospital for his treatments, and while we were there I would often see the other patients, including children. I'd see their parents, as they'd try to put on brave faces while keeping their tears back, and others who just lost control and sometimes run out of the room before they burst out sobbing.   

While rape is indeed a terrible crime, I will say with absolute certainty that there is no fate more terrible than for a parent to watch his or her own child endure horrible pain, and be helpless to help them.  And while I will always spit on Dean for his crime, I can not help but feel great pity for what he is about to endure with his child.

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## lizann

dean could be a good dad but what he did to linda it is hard to owatch him have any happiness, the writers messed up giving him a child after making him a rapist

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## maidmarian

> I disagree with that comment completely, as watching your own child suffer and die is a fate worse than death for any parent.  When my dad was diagnosed with leukaemia, I would go with him to the hospital for his treatments, and while we were there I would often see the other patients, including children. I'd see their parents, as they'd try to put on brave faces while keeping their tears back, and others who just lost control and sometimes run out of the room before they burst out sobbing.   
> 
> While rape is indeed a terrible crime, I will say with absolute certainty that there is no fate more terrible than for a parent to watch his or her own child endure horrible pain, and be helpless to help them.  And while I will always spit on Dean for his crime, I can not help but feel greTat pity for what he is about to endure with his child.


The parents you saw in hospital ( with whom I have
the greatest sympathy) have known and loved their
child since birth and gone through possibly many
years of worry and the diagnosis and treatment.

Dean hasnt had any real contact with Roja yet.
Being a parent doesnt give you right of 
ownership of a child when others have given 
years of care.

Dean finds he has a daughter so he must have
her -no matter what. Which doesnt bode well
for the childs welfare.

I accept that majority of people would feel
as you suggest - but personally I dont feel
Dean has behaved as a normal caring person
would in any situation so far. So would 
have great concern about him having 
access to a seriously ill child in his 
permanent "ME ME ME" mindset.

Im not making value judgments about
Rape v Child Loss just about Dean
and his personality & behaviour.

P.S. Not impressed by Masood & others too
A child is a person not a possession!!

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Dazzle (13-06-2015), Glen1 (13-06-2015), lizann (13-06-2015), parkerman (13-06-2015), tammyy2j (13-06-2015)

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## maidmarian

Dupl

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## maidmarian

> I'm beginning to despair of any justice for Dean.


I agree Parkerman. I think.the time delay and
skewed thinking on this storyline are unbelievable.

I cant make up my mind if the soap powers
that be think.if they spin it out long enough
people will stop complaining or there is
actually a plan-as promised.

The only positive thing -to me- is they have
already reserved the "secret twin" plotline 
for Kat- but it isnt really developed yet.

Otherwise Im sorry to say I wouldnt find
it impossible to believe that they would
dispose of Dean and then produce a slightly
more acceptable previously unknown " twin"
version played by same actor - with a few
small physical.differences!!

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Dazzle (13-06-2015), Glen1 (13-06-2015)

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## maidmarian

Dupl

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## Dazzle

Brilliant posts Maidmarian!  :Clap: 




> I disagree with that comment completely, as watching your own child suffer and die is a fate worse than death for any parent.  When my dad was diagnosed with leukaemia, I would go with him to the hospital for his treatments, and while we were there I would often see the other patients, including children. I'd see their parents, as they'd try to put on brave faces while keeping their tears back, and others who just lost control and sometimes run out of the room before they burst out sobbing.   
> 
> While rape is indeed a terrible crime, I will say with absolute certainty that there is no fate more terrible than for a parent to watch his or her own child endure horrible pain, and be helpless to help them.  And while I will always spit on Dean for his crime, I can not help but feel great pity for what he is about to endure with his child.


Maidmarian's said most of what I wanted to say (and far more succinctly), but I'd just like to add that I'd agree with you if this were real life and if Dean had known and loved Roya for years.  Her death would indeed be the greatest pain he could suffer.

What we're complaining about is that *if* this is the route the writers are taking, Roya's death wouldn't redeem him for the rape in our eyes and we'd still detest having him on our screen as much as ever.  The only way it could work would be for it lead to Dean to confess to his crime and serve a sentence for it.

Also, none of us wants to be manipulated into feeling sympathy for Dean. Neither do we want to see Shabnam and her little girl suffer.  We want Dean to pay for the rape and be gone, leaving the other characters to move on with their lives.

Maybe we'd feel very differently if Dean had been shown to feel secret remorse about the rape (and about the rest of his recent appalling behaviour).  In that case he could possibly be redeemed with a *lot* of work.  However, he's been shown time and time again to be a thoroughly despicable man with no empathy for anyone else.  This isn't someone most of us here are going to sympathise with enough to forgive his recent behaviour if the daughter he's just met dies.  :Angry: 

Hopefully there's more to this story than we've guessed and it will lead to a satisfying comeuppance for Dean!  :Searchme:

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Glen1 (13-06-2015), maidmarian (13-06-2015), parkerman (13-06-2015), tammyy2j (13-06-2015)

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## tammyy2j

> I disagree with that comment completely, as watching your own child suffer and die is a fate worse than death for any parent.  When my dad was diagnosed with leukaemia, I would go with him to the hospital for his treatments, and while we were there I would often see the other patients, including children. I'd see their parents, as they'd try to put on brave faces while keeping their tears back, and others who just lost control and sometimes run out of the room before they burst out sobbing.   
> 
> While rape is indeed a terrible crime, I will say with absolute certainty that there is no fate more terrible than for a parent to watch his or her own child endure horrible pain, and be helpless to help them.  And while I will always spit on Dean for his crime, I can not help but feel great pity for what he is about to endure with his child.


Maidmarian and Dazzle have answered what I would say too very well and better than me but I would add that Dean will only discover his daughter is alive this week so he will have no real connection to her until he meets her, you cant compare him to parents who have been with their kids all their lives like the ones you mention in your thread 

If this was Dominic's plan for Dean all along why then make him a rapist, he could have made a drunken pass at Linda and apologised to her and Mick and then move on and build a relationship with Mick and his family 

Dominic cant think that Dean can continue living on the Square around Linda and Mick as if nothing happened

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Dazzle (13-06-2015), Glen1 (13-06-2015), lizann (13-06-2015), maidmarian (13-06-2015), parkerman (13-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

You can blame the DTC for changing their mind. They decided on the rape story, then apparently they liked Dean's character and the stories they could do with him, as well as Di Angelo's acting, so much that they began writing in what I think are some poor excuses for a lot of what Dean's done etc.

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Dazzle (13-06-2015), Glen1 (13-06-2015), lizann (13-06-2015), parkerman (13-06-2015)

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## Dazzle

I've just seen on the cover of one of this week's TV mags the headline "Dean's Revenge Attack" or words to that effect, along with a photo of him and Shabnam.  If that's not the usual gross exaggeration these magazines employ, it doesn't sound as if we're expected to sympathise with him (thankfully!).  :Thumbsup: 




> You can blame the DTC for changing their mind. They decided on the rape story, then apparently they liked Dean's character and the stories they could do with him, as well as Di Angelo's acting, so much that they began writing in what I think are some poor excuses for a lot of what Dean's done etc.


I totally agree!  :Smile:

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maidmarian (13-06-2015)

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## Dazzle

Here it is:-

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maidmarian (13-06-2015), parkerman (13-06-2015), tammyy2j (14-06-2015)

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## storyseeker1

I think the revenge attack must be when Dean finds out about his daughter, and then goes to Shabs engagement party and exposes her lies and everything to the whole crowd.  (At least he's not gonna physically hurt her, though personally I think Shabs would prefer it if he did instead of exposing her.)

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Dazzle (14-06-2015), parkerman (14-06-2015)

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## maidmarian

> I think the revenge attack must be when Dean finds out about his daughter, and then goes to Shabs engagement party and exposes her lies and everything to the whole crowd.  (At least he's not gonna physically hurt her, though personally I think Shabs would prefer it if he did instead of exposing her.)


I.have a copy of the mag-
It mentions verbal attack  of  Shabnam at party

phrases from." article"
Shabnam.is lying

Dean overcome when Buster spills beans

Shirley protects her son

Devastated he has been robbed of chance to br dad

Dean in.pieces and breaks down

I think.Dazzle correct about hyping
in.her earlier post when front
cover shown

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Dazzle (14-06-2015), parkerman (14-06-2015)

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## maidmarian

Dupl

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## maidmarian

[QUOTE=Dazzle;823932]I've just seen on the cover of one of this week's TV mags the headline "Dean's Revenge Attack" or words to that effect, along with a photo of him and Shabnam.  If that's not the usual gross exaggeration these magazines employ, it doesn't sound as if we're expected to sympathise with him (thankfully!).  :Thumbsup: 

Dazzle - if you havent seen.the article within
mag-Ive quoted a few choice phrases at #,68
below. Im.hoping the episode is better than
that

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Dazzle (14-06-2015)

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## maidmarian

Dupl

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## Dazzle

> Dazzle - if you havent seen.the article within
> mag-Ive quoted a few choice phrases at #,68
> below. Im.hoping the episode is better than
> that


So do I!

It looks like I was premature in celebrating the so-called "revenge attack"!  Not that I was hoping Shabnam would be physically hurt of course, but I wanted proof the writers still consider Dean a villain.  From what you've quoted above it sounds like we'll have to suffer yet more self-pity from poor tormented Dean...  :Thumbsdown: 

Thanks for posting the quotes MM.  :Smile:

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## storyseeker1

Just watched the current episode.  Why is it every time it looks like Dean is finally gonna man up and confess to his crime, he clams up and something happens that takes precedence over everything else, like finding his daughter, big heart to heart with Shirley, talking about Jimbo etc??? 

This is getting repundant!

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Dazzle (19-06-2015)

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