# General beekeeping > Bee health >  AFB in South Aberdeenshire

## gavin

Two apiaries in the St Cyrus area have been found to be infected with AFB.

http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Bee...rmed-2576.aspx

G.

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## alclosier

I just had an efb alert for south Queensferry today as well.

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## Poly Hive

Is the AFB on a Bee Farm or a hobbyist situation anyone know?

PH

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## gavin

I've just had an EFB alert for the Errol area too.  No, Pete, I don't know but there is only one bee farm in that area so it is either him or a hobbyist with at least two apiaries.  If I did know I wouldn't be saying - I just publicise my own cases  :Embarrassment: .

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## greengumbo

> I've just had an EFB alert for the Errol area too.  No, Pete, I don't know but there is only one bee farm in that area so it is either him or a hobbyist with at least two apiaries.  If I did know I wouldn't be saying - I just publicise my own cases .


May yer bees flee lang !

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## Calluna4u

The EFB alert for South Queensferry is a single outlier, and very light too, at one of my poly apiaries in the Mid and West Lothian range. We have several cases, but. as usual, they are very much centred on Broxburn. Its always centred there for some reason.

Two sites have had cases every year since the EFB outbreak started......even if its different bees with a previously clean record that go there. As related by the inspectors at the recent training day however, each year it is getting less and less severe, and although our overall cases numbers are marginally up this year on last, the hive numbers are up even more, so the overall percentage rate gets lower too.

Gavin...no idea where the Errol alert came from. Have plenty sites round there, all are registered, and not had an alert. Outside the Lothian group we have thus far had a single outlier in a wooden Langstroth at Kilgraston, so perhaps your alert relates to something nearer to there?

I was alerted a week ago by the owner of the AFB colonies in South Aberdeenshire and it is not a situation others need be nervous of. It has been dealt with and may well have something to do with an outbreak not far from there in recent years.

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## Poly Hive

Thanks for that Murray. 

PH

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## gavin

There are two guys who have had EFB in recent years with bees N of the A90 so I guess the Errol cases are coming from there.  The alert tells you which of your apiaries is close to a confirmed case.  The 3km circle would miss the apiaries of yours that I know about.  Incidentally I was called out to a swarm beside an Errol footpath a few days ago.  Having been out in the rain a few days they were not pleased to see me! 

Ah, so they are yours at Kilgraston.  I have an apiary to the west beyond the 3km circle.

I'm using this to draw 3km circles.  http://obeattie.github.io/gmaps-radius/

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## Calluna4u

I have nothing between Errol and Longforgan this year. I suppose if you dropped a case in the middle of that gap I would not hear about it but you would.

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## Greengage

When the Bee pest Ireland bill was passed in 1908 there was a fine of £5 that equates to £540 in todays money, (according to google calculator)There is no penalty today, Nor is there anyone to Know. Now before you start telling me its the law and you should and must do this I know, but there are lots of Keepers of bees who are outside all regulation, Neither members of clubs or affiliated to organisations. Because we have no Inspection I doubt if lots would know what to look for, I know keepers of bees who still cannot see eggs or tell the differance between queens and drones.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/l...t-ireland-bill

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## madasafish

> When the Bee pest Ireland bill was passed in 1908 there was a fine of £5 that equates to £540 in todays money, (according to google calculator)There is no penalty today, Nor is there anyone to Know. Now before you start telling me its the law and you should and must do this I know, but there are lots of Keepers of bees who are outside all regulation, Neither members of clubs or affiliated to organisations. Because we have no Inspection I doubt if lots would know what to look for, I know keepers of bees who still cannot see eggs or tell the differance between queens and drones.
> http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/l...t-ireland-bill


I am mentoring - sorry .. helping out in problems when she rings me-  one lady who is  in the position GG describes. Not registered, not  a member...and lost three hives over the past three winters. The current one is her fourth...

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## alclosier

> The EFB alert for South Queensferry is a single outlier, and very light too, at one of my poly apiaries in the Mid and West Lothian range. We have several cases, but. as usual, they are very much centred on Broxburn. Its always centred there for some reason.


Thanks for the openness in regards to this. It can be very alarming to see multiple nbu emails coming in with no context.

Do you think there is a typhoid Mary hive not linked to you in the area? Or could it be cross contamination from equipment or other source. It would be good to identify the problem and remove it for future years.
Do you think you have a higher number of cases due to the level of inspection and staff experience? Are hobbyists missing signs of efb?

Apologies for the number of questions.



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## Calluna4u

> Thanks for the openness in regards to this. It can be very alarming to see multiple nbu emails coming in with no context.
> 
> Do you think there is a typhoid Mary hive not linked to you in the area? Or could it be cross contamination from equipment or other source. It would be good to identify the problem and remove it for future years.
> Do you think you have a higher number of cases due to the level of inspection and staff experience? Are hobbyists missing signs of efb?
> 
> Apologies for the number of questions.


No problem with the questions. I strongly believe in the openness bit anyway. People end up with foulbroods generally through no fault of their own though obviously this is not always the case, and stigmatising such people does not good at all, and drives secrecy, which in turn causes people both to be ignorant of the risks in their area and/or to be suspicious of others.

To be honest the driving force in the EFB infection in our bees is most probably based n the equipment itself. Sub clinical levels are probably present that only show up at times of stress or various types. Taking out the infected colonies keeps a lid on it but I fully expect to be dealing with sporadic EFB for the rest of my life now. It will probably decline a lot further from the current situation, but it is now in the area and I don't expect it to be actually eradicated.

I have a few suspected mechanisms for this, and the main one to me is the extracting room. With the number of colonies we have, pushing up towards 3000, it is actually impossible to keep individual hive equipment and to wash down and sterilise the system after every colony's honey.

Having said that we are now in a situation where our rates of infection are below the national average, from a very serious position back in 2009. It is a long term project to deal with this, but we are doing our best, and so far as we know we have not caused transmission of the disease onwards to neighbouring hives in the 7 years since this issue reared its head. There was a serious, deep seated, and 'probably' long term issue in our home range here, and we were recipients of that probably about three or four years prior to the 2009 diagnosis.

So, accepting that it is at least 80% likely that the issue lies within our own unit there remains the 'Typhoid Mary' scenario as a possibility, although again it may be that the ORIGIN of the issue in the Lothians lies with ourselves.

Prior to knowing what was going on we were heavily involved in migratory operations into the Mid and West Lothian areas. We started going there in 1992 in a big way after buying out part of the holding of a deceased commercial beekeeper active in the area for many years. In the period just before the findings we had an apiary of bees stolen near Broxburn, and event covered in the press at the time. The beekeeper was for sure local to the area, as they revisited the site more than once to steal other gear, such as supers and excluders that they would be needing for the bees they stole (Langstroth hives....so the need for odds and end made me think they were probably not a Langstroth keeper). We eventually moved the bees to another spot to get them away from the thief. The team drove the bees about 5 miles west from there and returned for the pallets.......they guy had been back in between and snaffled half of the pallets and the bait hive that was to go home with the team. Subsequently it was found that the rest of this group in fact had EFB infected colonies in it. So.... where did the stolen and never found hives go? Are they lying in a wood nearby rotten with EFB and of course, having been nefariously obtained they aint going to register them or volunteer to have them inspected.

The higher number of cases this year.....and we are not talking a big increase......is down, in my opinion to two things. Firstly we have about 25% more bees on the ground this year.  Secondly,  winter cull often takes care of the less healthy, whereas this year, especially in the poly unit, there was virtually no 'winter cull' at all. The year with the big drop in cases in Scotland as a whole was the year after heavy winter losses. There were simply far fewer bees that spring.

We chop out all comb that is from infected colonies and sterilise all the frames and boxes. The Smith unit, which was where it arose first, is now virtually clear of EFB, but almost all deep and shallow comb has been renewed in that time. In the wooden Langstroths its only the odd sporadic. In the local poly unit it is currently an issue, despite that being practically clear at the official start of the outbreak. Our poly units in Aberdeenshire and England remain clear of the issue.

My key staff are now all very good at finding the issue and are digging it out at low levels, so your suggestion about the level of expertise being behind the rise may have a small significance.

Amateurs? Well I doubt most would pick up an early stage infection. There has been little or no transfer into the amateur sector anyway, where AFB seems to be more of an issue. I have hosted a few training evenings for the amateur sector to see and observe active EFB and learn about it, in our hospital apiary in Perthshire where the infected hives go to be shook swarmed in conjunction with Steve Sunderland and Gavin Ramsay, but last years event was very poorly attended and I doubt that it will be repeated this year. I suspect that its flogging a dead horse in many cases trying to get folk to pay attention to this. Mental block is a thing too. Graeme Sharp said at an early stage in this event that people don't see foulbrood because they dont want to see it, and will rationalise it as anything else. In our case we thought it was parasitic mite syndrome, and actually it was both, as we also had an issue with varroa control at the time.

Hope this deals with some of the questions.

Murray

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## Calluna4u

With reference to previous post, I could also point out that we get our main flush of symptomatic cases in spring and early summer. This is when we catch all the colonies which have developed active EFB since the previous summer. Once we have rooted those out we find relatively few. After the bees go to the heather we do not go into the nest for a full examination until the season is over, by which time most are brood free. Thus its spring before we catch up with the new cases.

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## Greengage

Calluna4u that was very informative and interesting to read, I have said to some of the lads over here I would'nt mind visiting an Apiary to see either AFB or EFB just to see what I should be looking for but you would think I had suggested committing some serious crime no one wanted to know and I got some strange looks. Best of luck and hope all works out for you.

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## Calum

EFB on the rise in Austria again too I see. 
We are just advised to keep refreshing the old comb in the hives to avoid it. - If you hold the enpty frame up to the sky and can't see your hand - it shouldn't be in the hive- is the rule of thumb. 
Also wax for old combs should just be used for candles. 
Tho there is a very interesting fellow in my area that used to own a chain of brothels in Hamburg, he has a system for heating the wax beyond 100°C to kill of AFB and EFB in the  process for making foundation. I think the biggest difference between Germany and Austria is education - in Germany there is a huge amount going on in the clubs. The guys giving talks usually get paid for it too. 

br
Calum

PS Callum4u what do you recommend for sterilising large numbers of frames?

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## gavin

Cracking set of questions and answers.

Murray, it seems possible that a good number of your positives come from brood frame extractions after the heather and not knowing which colonies went symptomatic in the brood while on the heather.  Is this the explanation for some guys having a sharp rise in cases in some years - spreading of infection during extraction of uninspected brood combs in the previous season?  Do all the commercial operators go into the brood frames for heather honey and if not do those who don't have better EFB control?  Wouldn't it be sensible to do brood disease inspection in late July/August to try to reduce incidence?

The cluster of cases in the Broxburn area is just crying out for someone to do bee lining to track down the colonies in the area.  Who knows, they might even be Langs on pallets.

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## alclosier

Murray thanks for the detailed reply.

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## Calluna4u

> Cracking set of questions and answers.
> 
> Murray, it seems possible that a good number of your positives come from brood frame extractions after the heather and not knowing which colonies went symptomatic in the brood while on the heather.  Is this the explanation for some guys having a sharp rise in cases in some years - spreading of infection during extraction of uninspected brood combs in the previous season?  Do all the commercial operators go into the brood frames for heather honey and if not do those who don't have better EFB control?  Wouldn't it be sensible to do brood disease inspection in late July/August to try to reduce incidence?
> 
> The cluster of cases in the Broxburn area is just crying out for someone to do bee lining to track down the colonies in the area.  Who knows, they might even be Langs on pallets.


There is only one issue, at least with the symptomatics from each spring, that goes somewhat against your theory. The bees are not on combs that have been through the extracting room, at least not in the previous season. However there is some degree of merit in your proposition if you talk over a multi year basis. Old EFB is easily detected though, and each year a HANDFULL of boxes come through that have indications that EFB has been in the colony it came from (never more than about 5 boxes btw, out of over 4000) and these are crushed and then the frames boiled in caustic soda, the boxes sterilised too.

We do extract brood combs, yes, but that is mainly because we go onto a free run system prior to heather time, removing the excluders and letting the queen motor ahead, so any comb in the hive may be a brood comb, and upper level deep boxes are the place most of our honey comes from and also where the brood extension happens (about now actually....we are already about 30% through removing the excluders). Two enterprises I now of do not take from the brood area, and they have persistent EFB issues as well.

We do not like brood examination on the heather. The risk of queen loss is severe, which sets off swarming and casting, and the likelihood of her being replaced successfully is pretty well nil. From past experience of continuing examinations into the heather period the loss from the consequences of interference is greater than the number of recently symptomatic colonies we would catch. The black bees have often shut down brood rearing by not far into August too, so diagnosis might become an issue surprisingly early. Once the drones are out (which is sometimes as early as mid July on the moors) they are best left as alone as can be managed.


However, on to the BIGGER news.

On Sunday 19th June we detected a single colony with *AFB* near Dunecht.  Samples were taken and in consultation with Steve Sunderland the colony was destroyed by burning. The infection was confirmed by the lab yesterday. No other colonies were seen to have an issue. These bees are in a unit that up to now has always been clear, and in several seasons have never left Aberdeenshire. Inverurie area for winter and spring, Dinnet/Logie Coldstone area for heather, and back again. For now it seems to have been locally acquired, and I suggest most probably at heather time last year but we may never know . All nearby should be especially vigilant as other colonies may be affected too.

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## Calluna4u

Just posting this here due to the Aberdeenshire connection.

Thank you all for a nice visit to our queen unit yesterday. Very happy with how it went and there were lots of intelligent questions. I got my wrists slapped by Jolanta for something I did there as it was not the best idea (but I was in blissful ignorance at the time NOT to choose hives 12 and 13 to open as they had been thoroughly stirred up about an hour before ... lol)...... those in attendance will know what I mean....the two cell builders were not of her choosing and she wants them removed asap anyway as, although they are not breeders their temperament is not the best.....which was obvious. However in general the afternoon went well.

Weather not the best though, thundery weather  followed by a downpour. Thanks for the cakes....and one person left their shoes behind........so whoever arrived back in Aberdeenshire still in their bee boots now knows where their shoes are. If someone gets in touch we will post them up.

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## Mellifera Crofter

Thank you, C4U - again a wonderful afternoon with you, and we were so lucky to have had a brief spell, but long enough for our visit, in-between the downpours.  What a lovely spot for the apiary!
Kitta

C4U-2.jpg Mating nucs.jpg

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## Jon

You getting many queens mated? We had a great spell of weather last week of May and first week of June where it was near impossible to go wrong. last two weeks have been poor weather wise with very few queens flying and mating.

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## mbc

Same here Jon, early batches have all got mated fine with nary a hitch, more recent batches hanging around waiting for fine shagging weather.

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## Calluna4u

I think the funny old spring we had has played a part here. We don't start too early as the first run of queens can be a bit doubtful quality wise (similarly we stop a lot earlier than some of you). We had the cold east winds for much of the spring period that kept temps low so actually it was our early lots that were slow, then in the hot spell we had some stability issues with the smaller units (apideas etc). Since then it seems to have been OK....and we have literally in the hundreds of new laying queens to harvest. Noticed last night when having a snoop into some of her mating boxes that right up to box 511 (last one in the first mating yard) that the carnica queen in there, established on 13th June, is laying full tilt already....and checks back through several others and most re now with laying queens. Suspect this happened early last week after we endured 7 days of rain. The ones that had the first run of queens in them now have their second laying queen ready for harvest.

So while it got worse for the west it seems to have become better for the east. Every year is different.

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## Jon

I use Apideas and a few nucs for mating queens.
No problems with Apideas this year. I think I have had 2 abscond out of 170 set out so far.
Overfilling or exposed to direct sunlight are the most common causes of absconding.
The most recent queens to start laying were also from a batch set up on 13th June.

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## Calluna4u

They are almost all in shaded locations, from fairly solid shade to dappled shade. Yes, full sunlight makes them too hot and out they go. They are not too full. The bees in an Apidea or SwiBine generally cover almost 2 frames after establishment, its just a yogurt tub of bees. 

I did not quantify how many 'some issues' actually was...it will be under 20 from 500, and they are the same stands as had the issue last year. Apart from one batch that did not like it being put out in the hottest weather there are few problems this year......and in most cases they did not abscond by much....they were to be found in clusters hanging underneath other nearby boxes.

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## Jon

Could do with a day or two of sunshine now as I have a lot of virgin queens which need to fly and mate backed up in Apideas.

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## Calluna4u

> Could do with a day or two of sunshine now as I have a lot of virgin queens which need to fly and mate backed up in Apideas.


Not really looking like a great week for it. Strong zonal westerly flow and rather cool. OK for those doing breeding in the south of England but we northerners might not get too many new matings this week. However last week had some critical windows after the rainy 7 days for s went past and Jolanta was at the second unit yesterday and there are laying queens there too from 13th to 15th. However it might be a bit deceptive as some of these had queens from the incubator that were perhaps two or even three days old before being set out in the yards.

We really need to get a wiggle on harvesting queens to allow the next set to go into the boxes as cells rather than virgins.

We were bashing on with full hives yesterday near Edinburgh and they are now in a serious dearth there, with no serious progress since last major visit two weeks ago. No food at all in the nest area, and plenty pollen coming in but no nectar at all. Significant amounts of soot black pollen, which I think might be from field poppies. Very few splits made in June with cells have laying queens yet, in sharp contrast to the smaller mating box units. The black bees, calm and biddable up to now, were positively carnivorous yesterday.

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## Jon

Re the queen cells, I try and remove queens on a Monday which means that if you have grafted on a Thursday you have cells ready to emerge on a Tuesday which are perfect to go straight into the mini nucs after removal of a queen.
Hard to manage perfect timing when the weather can intervene.

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## fatshark

Notwithstanding the irritating subtitles _"You do not want to get the queen into the sample"_ this shows how easy it is to do an alcohol wash to count mites ... and a seemingly well-made gadget to do it with.







Screenwash ... nice one.

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