# More ... > Beekeeping and the environment >  Scotland At the Cutting Edge of Science

## Eric McArthur

 A Wide Ranging Study into the Impact of Industrial Chemicals on the Honey Bee by Professor Neil Millar, Dr Nigel Raine, Dr Geraldine Wright and Dr Chris Connolly

Hi All
Dr Connolly has made his  pitch in the magazine (see 2011, March issue Scottish Beekeper, pp63  64)  and also introduced his co-workers, which appears to be a well balance assembly of multiple disciplines.  It would seem cogent to commence the Forum discussion now and to hear Dr Ramsay objections to this extremely important independent study which hopefully will provide another piece in the vexed problem of world-wide honey bee colony demise.
All of the material pasted below is already in the public domain!

Eric
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Gavin wrote:
I will write for the magazine after Dr Connolly's pitch is published, and we hope to have a series of debates bringing together the magazine and SBAi in the coming months. 
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Alan Teale wrote:
Early last year Dr Connolly and his colleagues in several other
universities jointly submitted an application for research funding to
the Insect Pollinators Initiative (IPI). The IPI is funded by the
Wellcome Trust, the Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research
Council (BBSRC), the Natural Environment Research Council (NERC) and
Scottish Government. Gavin Ramsay also submitted an application.

In the face of strong competition from a large field of applicants the
Dundee-led research was one of a handful of projects selected for
funding after a peer review process involving two international panels
of scientists and research administrators, with the input of individual
and independent referees.

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Gavin wrote:
I don't see how sensible plans can be made without knowing what others have done in this field.  If you have read them, can you explain why no deleterious effects of pesticides in real, beekeeper-managed hives were detected yet other non-pesticide factors (not to be included in this 
study) were found to have an influence on colony health and survival?
Do you have any sympathy with the view that it is naive to compare some measure of colony performance (bee flights, stores laid down, brood expansion, or whatever) when there will be over-abundant resources tainted with pesticides (oilseed rape fields almost all of which come from imidacloprid-treated seed) and natural sources of forage within flying distance of many apiaries? Surely colony performance now as it has always depends largely on the state and abundance of the local bee forage?
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Scientific reviews state:
After reviewing dozens of laboratory and field studies conducted by Bayer Crop Science and by independent scientists, the panel concluded that there was a significant risk to bees from exposure to imidacloprid on sunflowers and maize (corn), the only crops for which they had exposure data. Following the release of this report, the French Agricultural Ministry suspended the use of imidacloprid on maize and sunflowers. Italy, Germany, and Slovenia have also suspended certain uses of the neonicotinoids based on concerns for bees. 
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## Jon

Hi Eric.
I don't know much about this study other than you think it is great and that Gavin has his reservations about it.

What is it that impresses you about it and how does it differ from the other international field studies which have failed to implicate pesticides in areas where there has been bee decline?

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## Eric McArthur

Hi 

It is up to Gavin toi initiate the discusion on this important contribution to the inductrial chemicals issue since he has raised objections to it.

Eric

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## AlexJ

Eric,

I'm not sure what your issues are with Gavin, other than fundamentally different opinions on pesticide use sometimes engendering heated exchanges of posts.  Dont you think its going too far to personalise a thread in this manner?

If you had kicked it off with a general debate about the efficacy of the research methodology, or aims and objectives, you might get a more productive response.

Alex

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## Jon

Yes Eric. You started a thread titled 'Scotland At the Cutting Edge of Science'. 
I am curious to see how this is 'cutting edge' in your opinion in relation to the other field studies which have gone before.
What's different exactly about this one.

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## Eric McArthur

Hi All
I notice that Gavin has had time to respond to Stallion, but is leaving his following to deflect attention from the issue at large .   It would seem cogent to commence the Forum discussion now and to hear Dr Ramsays objections to this extremely important independent study.
Gavin in his enthusiasm to scupper this important study actually affected and delayed its smooth acceptance into SBA policy.  
I quote from a senior member of the SBA Exec (which is also in the public domain!)  viz:-  Suffice it to say that we are not being helped by the discord that is being created. 
..................................................  .
There is a meeting (among others!) scheduled for 7th April 2011, at Scotlandwell, (see Scottish Beekeeper magazine, March 2011, page 66), - 
titled, -  Are Pesticides and Miticides Contributing to Honey Bee Decline?, 
when Dr Connolly will outline the  terms of reference for the study .  This study is a first for Scotland and indeed the UK  the outcome will be dependent on the collaboration of Scotlands beekeepers and will contribute to the ongoing independent studies in other centres world- wide. 
 It would be of great interest to know why Dr Ramsay was so incensed by the SBA Executive,  democratic decision to reject his lone objection to the project, that he resigned his Disease Conveners post  does he know something that perhaps has come straight from God or even Moses which we lesser mortals do not YET have privy to?
Over to you Dr Ramsay!

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## Jon

> Over to you Dr Ramsay!


No, it's over to you Eric.
Tell us why you think the study is 'cutting edge'
If I didn't know better I would suspect you know nothing about it, apart from the fact that Gavin was opposed to it.
Don't be shy. Make your case.

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## gavin

OK Eric, one final warning.  Continue with your campaign and you will be the first person on this forum to be subjected to control.  Even if it is me you are having a go at.

The piece you quoted made it plain that I will be laying out my views in the magazine.  No doubt people like you (maybe just you) will accuse me of abusing my position as forum admin if I debate it here.  Of course if either of the two main SBA promoters of the project wish to come on and explain their reasons for supporting the project, or any of the scientists themselves wish to come here to discuss it, I'll gladly join in.  Until then feel free to discuss it amongst yourselves.

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## Eric McArthur

Hi Gavin
Gavin wrote:
I will write for the magazine after Dr Connolly's pitch is published, and we hope to have a series of debates bringing together the magazine and SBAi in the coming months.
The piece you quoted made it plain that I will be laying out my views in the magazine.
.............................................
and the Forum!
It would seem cogent to commence the Forum discussion now and to hear Dr Ramsays objections to this extremely important independent study.

Eric

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## Eric McArthur

Hi Jon
Jon wrote;
No, it's over to you Eric.
Tell us why you think the study is 'cutting edge'
..................................................  ....................
Correct me if I am wrong  but most if not all of the studies so far have been done on the toxic visible effects of pesticides and the ppm/ppb amounts, which produce a specific effect on honey bee behaviour. Either the sledge hammer technique of LD50, or the lethal toxin levels to produce a synergistic result or levels which produce varying degrees of disorientation.  
A novel component of this proposed research will be to produce the FIRST  generation of a honey bee brain cell line in the laboratory for an indefinite period . When screened alongside similar cell lines from pest species this  will provide a valuable tool for the future screening of industrial chemicals that target pests, not bees.

Best regards
Eric

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## Eric McArthur

> No, it's over to you Eric.
> Tell us why you think the study is 'cutting edge'
> If I didn't know better I would suspect you know nothing about it, apart from the fact that Gavin was opposed to it.
> Don't be shy. Make your case.



Hi Jon
Are you having a lie down?  Your double negative was spot on.  Apart from wrong footing yourself in the process!  You should perhaps have consulted with Moses before venturing into print!
Shyness is not one of my many failings!

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## Jon

> A novel component of this proposed research will be to produce the FIRST generation of a honey bee brain cell line in the laboratory for an indefinite period . When screened alongside similar cell lines from pest species this will provide a valuable tool for the future screening of industrial chemicals that target pests, not bees.


Go on then. Explain your cut and paste.

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## Eric McArthur

Hi Jon
Which part?
E

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## Jon

The part I quoted above.

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## Eric McArthur

Hi John

Straight fromthe horse's mouth - Dr Connolly's article in the March SB ask Gavin!

Eric

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## Jon

I reckoned you were cutting and pasting without any comprehension!
I don't understand what it means either, and I would need to get my head around the concept before I could see if it were a valuable tool or not.

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## Eric McArthur

Hi Jon
Dinnae fash yersel laddie!   – What you think of the research is neither here nor there!  Leave it to the experts!

Eric

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## Jon

Aye. But the experts don't always agree. That's where it gets difficult for the ordinary beekeeper.

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