# General beekeeping > Everything and anything >  2 in 1 poly nuc box

## Silvbee

Hi all,

Does anyone have any experience with these poly nuc boxes, and the seller selling them? Thinking they may be quite handy but never had a poly nuc before.

Thanks in advance

SB

https://www.bshoneybees.co.uk/polynuc

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## Adam

The original polynuc was the Paynes one - which is OK apart from the feeder which I don't like so I have cut out the feeders in my ones to make 8 frame boxes. Others have come up with polynucs - Thornes do one for £30 (without a feeder) which, in my one at least, has some incorrect bee spaces so I would not recommend it. The BSHoneybees one does look really well thought out and if it works as well as it should, would be a good one to get. I would be interested in getting a couple myself but I have too much stuff anyway, so can't justify it.  :Frown:

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## Silvbee

> The original polynuc was the Paynes one - which is OK apart from the feeder which I don't like so I have cut out the feeders in my ones to make 8 frame boxes. Others have come up with polynucs - Thornes do one for £30 (without a feeder) which, in my one at least, has some incorrect bee spaces so I would not recommend it. The BSHoneybees one does look really well thought out and if it works as well as it should, would be a good one to get. I would be interested in getting a couple myself but I have too much stuff anyway, so can't justify it.


Thanks for the advice Adam. I have too much gear as well but i reckon i can sneak in a couple more nucs unnoticed. Anyone bought from BSHoneybees and would they recommend them?

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## Feckless Drone

> Anyone bought from BSHoneybees and would they recommend them?


Yes, very straightforward. I bought one of these nucs last year but never got around to using it since I freed up my other nuc boxes early. This season it will be used. I use the Paynes and the Maisemore nucs. I dislike Paynes feeder compartment in winter, when an eke is better, love it during the season. The Maisemore feeder (poly seems a bit less robust) is fine but needs eke in winter. The BSH feeder can be used for fondant or syrup, the ability to split the nuc in two offers possibilities for getting more Qs mated or just stored so looking forward to testing that aspect.

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## Mellifera Crofter

I haven't yet bought a BS Honeybees nuc - but looking at the pictures I liked it because it gives enough space for the bees above the frames - unlike Maisemore's nucs - and it doesn't have Payne's integral feeder which I don't like and have used only once.

C4U criticised the BS nuc as having too many bits and bobs and said that the divider is unnecessary.  True, the nuc would have been cheaper, and simpler without all those bells and whistles - but I might overlook all of that for the sake of the beespace and no side feeder.  I don't know of any other poly nucs as alternatives.

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## Mellifera Crofter

> ...I don't know of any other poly nucs as alternatives.


Sorry Im talking nonsense. There are alternatives!  Thornes have two options - but they both, I think, have problems.

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## fatshark

Late to the thread ...

A couple of comments. The Thorne's Everynuc is pretty good. Best if you use Langstroths, but they convert it to National sized using an internal feeder. The walls and the roof are good and thick and strong. The entrance is too big and the bee space is a bit off at one end. Nevertheless, the bees do really well in them overwinter.

2 in 1 nucs are an accident waiting to happen in my experience. I made half a dozen or so a few years back, filled them with virgin queens (one each ... and bees!) and ended up with about 7 mated queens (of 12). Usually the queens manage to sneak over the divider (under the crownboard) and slaughter their neighbour.

My advice would be to dummy-down a normal 5 frame nuc - two frames and a dummy board are usually fine - and not worry about the queens running amok.

Looked after, a poly nuc should last ages and pay for itself in a season.

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## Calluna4u

> Late to the thread ...
> 
> A couple of comments. The Thorne's Everynuc is pretty good. Best if you use Langstroths, but they convert it to National sized using an internal feeder. The walls and the roof are good and thick and strong. The entrance is too big and the bee space is a bit off at one end. Nevertheless, the bees do really well in them overwinter.
> 
> 2 in 1 nucs are an accident waiting to happen in my experience. I made half a dozen or so a few years back, filled them with virgin queens (one each ... and bees!) and ended up with about 7 mated queens (of 12). Usually the queens manage to sneak over the divider (under the crownboard) and slaughter their neighbour.
> 
> My advice would be to dummy-down a normal 5 frame nuc - two frames and a dummy board are usually fine - and not worry about the queens running amok.
> 
> Looked after, a poly nuc should last ages and pay for itself in a season.


Thank you Fatshark.

Multi queen units in one box are an idea that sounds great, and even *sometimes* works great, but single units offer better flexibility. Have dabbled in this and will not do so again...you can get them in Europe with up to four in one. 

The beef I have with them is that you have issues when one fails. You need to remake it, and the most effective ways of doing that are 'off stand'. With a failed single you just pick it up and refill with fresh bees at base, then after the appropriate interval return it to its position. With multiples containing a mix of fails and sucesses we tended to just end up with a partially occupied unit all season.

Also a 2 x 3 bar nuc? Why? It means too many visits to avoid them rapidly becoming congested and even very new queens wanting to swarm out. For a mating unit I can just about get it, but its an idea that sounds better than it works.

Also the fixed feeder slot in a Paynes...or others. Why do folk hate them and go hacking them out? Its a 6 bar nuc. If it needs more space then it needs a full hive, not two more bars. Failing that then one of their extension boxes. We find the fixed feeder very convenient and our main beef with Paynes box...and its a VERY minor beef not worth fussing about, is the lids are too thin.

In contrast they have sorted out many of the issues people gripe about in their new Langstroth version. However, though the box quality is excellent they have actually listened again to opinions and made the feeder a separate unit, which has bought us problems all of its own and we would have preferred it to have been a fixed unit as in the BS one.

Reasoning? Similar to the BS one, if 6 bars is not big enough it need properly promoting, not giving it a couple more bars that means you will likely be back into it in a week.

But the big thing is that it slides around. Unless the frames are TIGHT, when you move the nuc the feeder slides, even by a single beeway and you have a big problem. Bees go under the feeder (it does not reach the floor anyway) and up the side, the feeder slides back again and bees are killed...and can include the queen. Another good sounding idea that has serious complications in the real world. We are probably going to glue them all into place and fill the gap underneath with expanding foam. Took a while to figure out why a number of the nucs from last year in these, when moved to the winter site. immediately drew emergency cells. Dead queen due to waggling internal parts. Important to get it in proportion as it was only 9 out of 300, but if the feeder was fixed this would probably not have happened, at least not as many. The evidence was only spotted when clearing one out that was devoid of a laying queen going into winter......the coloured dot from the queen was apparent on a flattened bee between the feeder and the side wall.

Also, finding the queen in those, in particular with the highly mobile black ones, is an issue, as she will often be hiding in that void under the feeder. so you lift out the feeder, bees run all overt the wall, and the feeder, and it a bit of a PITA putting it all back together without killing any bees.

Everyone's solution is another person's problem.........

ps...this sliding around problem during moving....and the fact it constricts the nest, albeit by a small proportion, is why we never ever use dummy boards.

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## Mellifera Crofter

> ...
> 
> Also the fixed feeder slot in a Paynes...or others. Why do folk hate them and go hacking them out? Its a 6 bar nuc. If it needs more space then it needs a full hive, not two more bars. ...
> 
> 
> Everyone's solution is another person's problem.........


Im one of those people who hates the Paynes integral feeder, C4U - but I dislike all frame feeders!  

So, thats my first reason.  I just think bees drown in them no matter how careful I am with floats.

The other problem I found with the Paynes nuc was when I tried to move a nucleus colony into a larger hive, and the feeder still had syrup in it.  Trying to get the bees out of the nuc ended up in a syrupy mess.

And lastly, theyre difficult to clean. 

Im now thinking of removing the feeder - not because I want an intermediate hive between a nuc and a full hive - but just because I dont use the feeder.

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## fatshark

Hello Calluna4u

My problem with the Paynes box is not that it needs more space, but that I found the feeder was a graveyard for bees. I did hack mine up and - if I use them at all - it's with a frame feeder which I find much easier to empty if needed. I agree there's no point in going from 5 to 8 to 11 frames ...

They are light and quite good for holding with one hand pirouetting at the top of a ladder when catching swarms ...  :Wink: 

The sliding about issue is a problem with some boxes - full-sized or nucs. I have the luxury of the time to deal with this before moving boxes. I use a block of closed cell foam to wedge between the sidewall and the dummy board (or top bar of the frame and the sidewall if there's no dummy board). This works well and makes everything secure.

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## prakel

> Thornes do one for £30 (without a feeder) which, in my one at least, has some incorrect bee spaces so I would not recommend it.


I've had the opposite experience, I think those Stehr boxes are great. Simple box that takes frames of bees. I don't need or want anything else from them. Can't say I've noticed any issues that could be put down to incorrect bee space although I assume they must have come from the same set of moulds.

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## Silvbee

Thanks for all the advice folks. I went with the BS 2 in 1 nuc as I thought for an amateur it offers the flexibility of using it as a mating hive or a full 6 frame nuc. I'll let you know how I get on in the spring.

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## lindsay s

> Late to the thread ...
> 
> A couple of comments. The Thorne's Everynuc is pretty good. Best if you use Langstroths, but they convert it to National sized using an internal feeder. The walls and the roof are good and thick and strong. The entrance is too big and the bee space is a bit off at one end. Nevertheless, the bees do really well in them overwinter.


I added candy to my Everynucs today and they seem to be doing OK so far. Its the first time Ive overwintered bees in them. I hope they dont go hell for leather in this mild weather because I think they will pay the price later when the weather changes. Heres a few photos (note the black bees). On the -side while checking some of my main colonies I found one that had dwindled away to just a few bees. Plenty of stores but no queen and no sign of anything wrong in their brood area. She might have failed in the autumn and some of the bees might have ended up in the hives next door.

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## Feckless Drone

Good looking nucleus - lovely bees! What is the origin of these?

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## lindsay s

Thanks F D. Post 98 on this link might help a little bit. Because of varroa I think the last imports of bees into Orkney were in 2002/2003 (l cant be 100% sure). Black bees have always done better in our climate and were the dominant colour then. The few yellow colonies around at that time either died out or bred with the blacks. I know that some of our colonies are hybrids and others have a high AMM percentage. Bee samples from here were sent of to last years SNHS survey. Ive just joined the society and I hope to be at their Kinross meeting.
http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/sh...ud-bees/page10

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## Adam

> I've had the opposite experience, I think those Stehr boxes are great. Simple box that takes frames of bees. I don't need or want anything else from them. Can't say I've noticed any issues that could be put down to incorrect bee space although I assume they must have come from the same set of moulds.


The Thornes box has too wide a space for the frames so comb tends to be built at the ends of the frames; maybe I got an early one and the error was corrected for as the box had been reduced down by polystyrene spacers from the original internal size; it would be easy to supply the correct spacer material.

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## lindsay s

I’ve had to adapt the inside to give them top bee space and to give my Smith frames a better fit. But the bees still have plenty of room to build brace comb. I’m going to have fun prising the frames apart on their first spring inspection!!! If my polynucs do the job I will be getting more and I’ll just put up with their niggles.

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## fatshark

I've made similar changes to my Everynucs to accommodate National frames. However, I use the integral feeder and they seem to cope pretty well with it. Topping up the fondant involves just prising up the end of the lid and sliding a lump in.

180908-011.jpg

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## lindsay s

Nice link Fatshark 😀. I have bought their top feeders which are really good, but the only downside is another third is added to the Everynucs cost. I only feed homemade candy as an insurance when its to cold for syrup. The carriage costs for bee fondant make it far to expensive to use up here.

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## prakel

> The Thornes box has too wide a space for the frames so comb tends to be built at the ends of the frames; maybe I got an early one and the error was corrected for as the box had been reduced down by polystyrene spacers from the original internal size; it would be easy to supply the correct spacer material.


The ones I've got (bought about 3 years ago) have that gap filled in with sheets of the same poly as the box is made of. Maybe I got lucky!

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