# General beekeeping > Bee blether >  UK vs German Beekeeping.

## Neils

I've moved these posts from the Cool/Crazy Beehives thread as I thought it as an interesting conversation in its own right

Calum, got to ask, what takes you to Germany? And how does German beekeeping compare to Scottish Beekeeping?

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## Calum

Hey Nellie,
left when I finished uni. Didnt see any future for manufacturing in Scotland especially the north west coast. Wanted to learn a langauge and thought if you want to cut it as an engineer Germany is a good place to start. + the weather + the beer + I think people treat themselves and each other better here than in the uk.

12 years later I am still here, senior engineer for a automotive part supplier.

I think here there are more beekeepers, in the beekeepers club I am in there are 56 beekeepers with more than 700 colonies.
It is one of two in the town of 30000. Therre are 4-5 unis that have departments specializing in bees and beekeeping that study the issues affecting bees, and best practices.
And every region has 1 -3 state employed bee specialists that run training courses and seminars and give advice.
Because we share a language with Austria and Switzerland they share alot of knowledge as we are all affected by the same issues.
Kit is cheaper too as there is more competition. Plus Bavaria uses the money they get from the EU for promoting beekeeping quite well. 30% subsidy on items costing more than 50€ for new beekeepers (less then 3years keeping bees) when they spend over 500€. 20% subsidy on kit costing over 50€ for 'older' beekeepers when they spend over 900€. That helps lower the entry costs, and buying decent new equipment. But only till the subsidy pot is empty every year (it can happen that you apply and the pot is already empty). Also 100€ for beekeepers for each novice that they tutor for two years, helps novices alot, and motivates older beekeepers to share their knowledge. Its working well it would seem, Bavaria had over 2000 new beekeepers starting last year. I think their target is to increase the number of beekeepers by 10000 in Bavaria and then keep that number constant. I only started beekeeping in Germany so cannot really compare. What does Scotland / UK do with the EU provisions to promote beekeeping?

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## Neils

Regarding association sizes, I wonder how much has to do with the the relative sizes of the countries.  I know the UK/France respective populations are very similar, but France in terms of area is nearly 4x as big. In Bristol we have nearly 150 members (for a 300,000 population city, Blagdon which covers a lot of the outlying villages to the West is actually bigger) but space is very much at a premium and in terms of agriculture a lot is Animal Husbandry so generally very little immediate need or desire for hobbyist beekeepers. Most of our members are concentrated into areas of the city that have big gardens and/or allotments and probably 30-50% of those members are within a mile of my apiary yet this is a city that I consider pretty "green" in comparison to others.

As for EU provisions I'm not in much of a position to answer that but I don't see much of it filtering down to local association level.

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## Calum

Hi,
cities look to be better for keeping bees - certainly there are advantages over areas where monocultures prevail meaning there is only one or two big crops for the bees throughout the year.
In germany there are about 82000 beekeepers looking after 700000 colonies. About 200 of those are commercial beekeepers.
Germany has a population of aprox 82 million, so that makes roughly 1/1000 of the population are aparists.

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## Jon

I think one of the main differences is that, invoking the stereotype, Germany is better organised with regard to bee breeding and bee improvement. In Germany pretty much all the beekeepers work with Carnica whereas in most of the UK and Ireland it is a free for all with regard to bee type. There is also an organised bee improvement programme involving off shore mating stations on islands in the baltic sea.

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## Calum

Yes Jon, broadly speaking, but there are plenty of buckfast beekeepers, and still bark bees to be found.
Regarding the selective breeding, additionally to the offshore mating stations there are also alpine ones. 4 of my colonies were selected by the state for a mountain station as 'father' colonies last year. Something I am proud of!

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## fatshark

Here's another question for Calum ... I was googling for the best glue to attach numbered discs to queens when I came across www.apinaut.de, who sell a metal queen marking disk and some sort of magnetic pen with which to catch the queen.  This is high tech, with - I suspect - a high price.  

Does this fairly reflect beekeeping in Germany, or are there a reassuringly large number who - like me - scavenge wood from skips and practice amateur carpentry?  

And does the Apinaut queen catching trickery work?

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## Calum

Hi,
I saw that at the beekeeping trade fair last year. It is costly, interesting that you can also add a magnetic strip to the front of the hive to catch the queen in case she tries to swarm. 
She'd have to hang around till the beekeeper comes to retreive her though...  Makes catching the queen really easy, but using a queen clasp is very easy too.. Seems easily copyable (painted metal sheet thin punched glued to the queen, retractable pen with magnitised tip for catching her). I think it works out at 6 pounds a queen -too much to interest me, so I'll wait for the asian copy.

There are plenty of beekeepers that look for bargins, I find there are so many older beekeepers that it is a waiting game to get your hands on all the kit you need very cheaply. They tend to downsize and are often glad to do a good deal where they feel their kit will be put to good use. When I think about the time it takes to scavenge and make kit with the skills I have, it makes more sense for me to buy used gear and do something better with my time than hammer nails into firewood (or at least its often firewood by the time I am finished with it).   :Smile: 

Here is something I'll either make or buy, it seems a very practical solution to an annoying problem

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## fatshark

The tipping stand is a very clever idea ... and easy to DIY with some planed softwood and a little effort (for considerably less than €24).  I have a couple of buckets left to bottle this year so might have a go at making one.

The magnetic number tag is clever but - other than using it to possibly avoiding swarming - I don't see a need to catch the queen frequently enough to justify the outlay.  I suppose if you didn't graft but had an excellent queen you wanted to repeatedly use in a Jenter system there might be an application for it.  Maybe German beekeeping practices involve more handling of the queen?

Cheers

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## Calum

Hi 
I only look for the queen if I need her for the Jenter or need to make a queen cast (and that can be done without finding her if there is enough time - ie they are not about to swarm). Otherwise I just look for indications that she is about. I might see a queen twice a year otherwise.
But that is down to the beekeeper I suppose, there are always some that don't think the colony has been checked properly till they have seen the queen, and others that judge the situation just by observing whats going on at the entrance (are they brining in pollen and nectar) and the movements of the bees on the top of the frames when they open the hive.

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## susbees

> The tipping stand is a very clever idea ... and easy to DIY with some planed softwood and a little effort (for considerably less than €24)  Maybe German beekeeping practices involve more handling of the queen?
> 
> Cheers


 In which case you'd think they'd be good at it  :Wink:

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## Calum

Well, in our club there are 3 guys over 80, between them they have 50 colonies, I know two of them have jittery hands, and beginners are always scared of harming the queen.... But you'd be suprised at the s**te you can sell beekeepers..  :Smile:

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## Calum

Here is a very cool website about whats going on in the hive.
Live webcams inside and out, live thermal imaging and plenty more...
http://www.hobos.de/en/interessierte.../portrait.html

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