# General beekeeping > Starting out >  Let's talk bee suits.

## Neils

I seem to be going through suits every other year at the moment. I found the cause of bees in my hood the other day on one suit, the mesh has almost completely disintegrated on my fencer veil smock from Maisemore:



Granted that's now 4 years old, but I checked the veil on my newer, no name (but not cheap) full suit and it is also starting to go after one full season and I suspect it won't last a great deal longer.

In both cases the mesh is plastic/nylon which seems to go brittle and starts to snap.

I was having a look at some suits last night.

Having tried a full suit, it's a lot of hassle when you've only got a couple of hives so was going to go back to a smock type affair,

I noticed a few people recently using the bee basic  astronaut smock:


I also looked at Sherriff and BB wear as other possible candidates.

What are others using/recommend preferably that will last a good few years or at least has a replaceable hood/veil?

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## prakel

Hi, I'm pretty new to this forum, and to be honest wasn't planning on making many/regular posts simply because it can become too much of a commitment -and on occassions even stressful- to write on these internet forums especially so when we don't personally know the people that we're exchanging views with. First question I find myself asking these days is; could I have this same conversation with these people if we were all sat on a train or in a pub?

I found myself coming back to this forum on a regular basis for two primary reasons, firstly, there's the strong native bee sub forum which is a subject that I've recently been giving much more thought to and secondly, there appears a far more relaxed approach in these parts -more people talking bees than there are polishing egos. So I joined, and i've read and enjoyed. Hello.

Now Nellie, to your question, as a starting point I like full suits, not due to any undue terror of bees but because they protect my clothes. 

I've worn BB suits for about eight years now (I'm on my second) however, the veil on my newest suit has ripped -not sure how/when but it's no longer much use. The one thing which I'm certain of is that it's most certainly _not_ a manufacturing fault. This has left me using the veil off my old BB suit which interesingly doesn't fit! The zip is shorter so there's an inch or so hole at the front which gets plugged with some foam! The reason that I haven't bought a new veil from BB is that I'm planning on buying one of the Dadant suits with a zip on square mesh veil/hat. Maybe not as convenient as the fencing hoods but I always used to wear the wire veils before getting into BBwear and actually find them a little cooler (more comfortable) and I also feel that they give better visibilty. All of that said, I must point out that the BB suits are fantastic value for money, very comfortable and well made -with proper care they _do_ last for years.

All the Best,
Roland

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## Trog

We're still wearing our Steele & Brodie jackets with hat & veil after nearly 25 years. We wear standard boiler suits underneath; his is dark blue, standard boiler suit, mine is a fetching green, designed for stable work with lots of useful pockets for things like hoof picks which can also take a smoker lighter and hive tool!  Onto our second pair of gloves each, not the cheapest but not the most expensive either!

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## EmsE

Great topic!

I got my bee suit as part of a starter kit, however within the first year the veil had developed holes in it- only discovered when a bee decided to join me in it. The veil is made of nylon and agree with everything Nellie said about them. I've been looking for a new one for the past few years but havent got round to getting one i want to be sure the next one will last. I have made do with my current one by closing the gaps by sewing it up with whatever colour thread is available and it has become rather colourful- almost a work of art  :Embarrassment:  but is distracting when I'm trying to look past the lines of thread into the hive.

I haven't tried the all in one, I just use the smock and trousers. I've also decided against having a white suit as it is difficult to keep a low profile and they stain very easily.

Looking forward to hearing everyone else's thoughts.

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## beeanne

I've replaced the mesh on a suit using net fabric - pretty much any decent fabric shop will sell it. Ask for the type of stuff you'd use on bridal underskirts if all else fails....!
I hate the smock-type, I get a stung bum through my trousers practically every time, or get them flying up under the top the first time I bend over and it comes untucked.

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## HJBee

Got my all in one from Modern Beekeeping, was good value compared to others (£57 + Del), has the traditional round hat section as I had listened to some experienced folk re the likelihood of a sting to the face with the fencing/concertina type. I feel it is good quality, but they only do white.

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## Jon

I like these and recently bought 3 more. Cheap as chips and last a couple of years.
You need to trust your bees though as they don't offer a lot of protection, just keeping the bees out of your face.

http://www.thorne.co.uk/hardware/clo...roduct_id=2025

They are really light and comfortable compared to other jackets.
I used to use just a veil but I like the way these have elasticated wrists.

The other thing I have started using is an elasticated wrist bandage which you can pull a nitrile glove over. The jacket sleeve can be tucked into the glove.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-WHITE-WR...item27b9636059

PS, and welcome to the forum Roland.
The native bee forum will be kicking off again soon when the rain stops and the queenrearing starts again.
Our group has its first meeting of the year next Monday.

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## EmsE

I forgot all about considering that aspect of the suit  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  Mine is the one that looks like a fencing suit and find that I do need to keep pulling it off my face which is annoying. So, a must have for my next suit is the round hat :Smile: .

I like the idea of just buying the netting too as besides the holes and the hat shape, it is still fine. I can always have it as a spare then.

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## madasafish

I bought a camo top & veil three years ago from: http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/1trelill/?_trksid=p4340.l2559

I don't like full suits - too restrictive. Most of my keeping is at home: pop in and out when time free. 

Suit still OK as is veil..

IF I needed a full suit - really horrible bees - I have a full zip up car mechanics uniform like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panoply-Boil...sr=1-1-catcorr

which is perfectly bee tight and wear my jacket on top. No bee in the UK can sting through the uniform.. and it's ideal for cold days..

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## Neils

> Now Nellie, to your question, as a starting point I like full suits, not due to any undue terror of bees but because they protect my clothes. 
> 
> All the Best,
> Roland


Welcome to the Forum Roland, nowt wrong with "lurking", to use forum parlance, but always nice to see a new face.

Totally agree with you about that aspect of using a full suit. What I don't like about mine is that it gets very hot and the time it takes to put on when you maybe only want to do a quick check or maybe change a feeder which is why I kept the smock lurking about (and it was handy to lend to others).  I was considering getting/making a cheapie veil along the lines of what beeane suggests for doing quick things that don't require a full suit but you want to keep inquisitive bees off your face/out of your hair. I think like most people I've quickly learned from experience that the one time you don't wear at least a veil is when you learn the value of spending those extra 30 seconds putting it on, even if only to change a feeder.

My first suit from Maisemore I've ended up hating, aside from the holes in the mesh, the fencing "supports" also quickly deformed after a few goes in the washing machine making it very difficult to keep the veil off my face.

I have a pair of cheap, light fabric, cargo pant type trousers that I use for outdoor work/beekeeping. Cool in hot weather and baggy enough that I've never been stung through them. If they get covered in mud/paint/propolis I don't mind, I just lace my boots around the ankle cuffs to stop bees getting in.

My full suit has a much better fencer type veil than Maisemore's, both in terms of keeping its shape and being big enough that it stays far enough off your face while working.

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## prakel

> Welcome to the Forum Roland, nowt wrong with "lurking", to use forum parlance, but always nice to see a new face.


Thanks for the welcome.




> My first suit from Maisemore I've ended up hating, aside from the holes in the mesh, the fencing "supports" also quickly deformed after a few goes in the washing machine making it very difficult to keep the veil off my face.


Funnily enough, one of the best 'veils' which I ever owned came from Maisemore about twenty years ago. It was a bright orange smock with an attatched wire veil and integral hat, in the end I lost it in a move and have not seen another like it on the market. I agree that it does make sense to keep a smock or even a hat and veil handy for those 'light' five minute jobs -as well as for when you drive off to an out apiary wearing your all in one BBwear suit and then realize that you've left the hood on the kitchen table....

Roland

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## Bumble

I did try making my own veil using the thick netting used for ballet tutus, but my sewing skills let me down, and it was difficult to make a ring to keep it away from the face.

I have two sets of beekeeping clothing that actually get used.

I have a pull-on jacket and veil that I wear with poly cotton overtrousers, complete with mosquito repellent, like these but cheaper http://www.millets.co.uk/product/033...-trousers.html

The other is a cheap, thin, oversize, zip-up boiler suit, with a hat and Swienty wire mesh veil http://www.swienty.com/shop/default.asp?catid=1115 I prefer this veil to the fabric one on the jacket, it seems easier to see through and doesn't get pushed out of shape in storage. I also like to be able to take it off and carry it separately rather than having the hat/veil bit hanging down my back.

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## chris

> I seem to be going through suits every other year at the moment.


Now, if you took to top bar hives and non intervention........... :Stick Out Tongue: 

I have an integral *fencing* suit at the moment. I've had it 6 years. It cost 85 euros and it's still fine. The make is Combiz-don't know if you can get them over there. The knees are padded. The polycoton is thick.The wrists have velcro for tightening.The bottoms of the legs have long zips so it's easy to slip on over boots.The hood is detatchable by zip and the mesh very strong.There is a velcro that pulls the hood forward off the face, and though the back is pushed against the back of the head, there is extra padding there so no stings get through.There are all sorts and shapes of pockets.
I've never been stung through it, and the few minutes it takes to put it on is all part of the visit.
It's the perfect wooz suit :Wink:  so suits me fine.

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## prakel

> Funnily enough, one of the best 'veils' which I ever owned came from Maisemore about twenty years ago. It was a bright orange smock with an attatched wire veil and integral hat, in the end I lost it in a move and have not seen another like it on the market.


OK, so I'm repeating myself now...

But there is a reason for doing so, in one of those strange coincidences which sometimes happen I've actually stumbled on the very jacket although it no longer appears to be available in the snazzy orange which I liked so much.

Product #4031 at:

http://www.holtermann-shop.de/index.php/cPath/57_172 

To me, the real selling point of this jacket is the fact that it has a wire veil _and_ the integral hat (Dadants all in one requires that you use a seperate hard-hat; I think they're missing a trick there).

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## gavin

And the prices are attractive too.  I like the round wire hat that keeps the veil off the face, but as I've been finding out lately (having organised some beginner visits and decided to provide them with freshly laundered suits) they don't sit as comfortably in a washing machine.

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## Rosie

I have about a dozen or more suits from various suppliers as I need to lend them out to the beginners on my beekeeping courses.  I think BBwear take some beating although there are plenty of cheaper ones that are more than adequate.  However, at the BBKA spring convention I invested in a ventilated jacket supplied by Maisemore.  When I got it home I realised that it was grubby around the cuffs and had 2 small holes in the veil but notwithstanding that I have tried it a couple of times and it seems to be performing well, apart from being surprisingly heavy considering it's mostly holes.  I am waiting for global warming to kick in now to see if it's any cooler than a standard suit.

In the old days, before global cooling arrived, I used to wear silk longjohns and vest under my BBwear all-in-one but for the last 3 or 4 years it's been woolly jumpers.

Rosie

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## Jon

> In the old days, before global cooling arrived, I used to wear silk longjohns and vest under my BBwear all-in-one


Too much information!

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## The Drone Ranger

http://www.bbwear.co.uk/acatalog/Suits.html
Try the  BBwear jacket they will make longer arms and body adjustments to size for no extra money.
Clive (every which way but loose) swears by them

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## Bridget

I just wish they put decent loops on mine.  It's hanging from a nail in the shed and I know it will make a hole and let a bee in someday

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## madasafish

> I just wish they put decent loops on mine.  It's hanging from a nail in the shed and I know it will make a hole and let a bee in someday


Some of us have discovered wire coathangers....:-)

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## Bridget

I banned wire coathangers years ago.  You must send your clothes to the dry cleaners then!

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## Neils

I've not tried the suits themselves out yet, but I do have to mention Bee Basics for their customer service.

Last Saturday I started to wonder why there were so many bees *inside* my suit. The zips on my suit were broken so I ordered a cotton and micro fibre suit from bee basics and a refractometer.  When nothing had turned up on friday I rang them up. They knew what my order was and explained the refractometer hand't come in yet. I explained that I needed the suits and please could they at least send me one suit.

This morning both suits turned up, delivered special delivery.

I've not tried them with bees yet, but I look forward to giving them a write up. In my living room they seem more than fine and by far the best suits I've had to date. The micro fibre suit I'm pretty sure I wouldn't use on hives I think will sting me, it's like a light waterproof, but i think they're great suits from what I've seen of them so far. 

As a company, massive thumbs up for customer service.

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## Neils

Late update. The Bee basics suits are great but don't put the hoods thought the washing machine. The suits are brilliant, but i couldnt get the hood off so stuck it in the washing machine; big mistake, holes and tears all over the place.

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## Rosie

Nellie

The Bee Baisc hoods usually come off easily.  People often don't realise that there is only one zip and both sliders come off the same end as in the case of some coats that open from the bottom as well as the top.

In fact most European bee suits seem to work the same way.

Steve

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## Neils

Believe me I tried to take it off. You'd think a zip would be relatively easy to work out  :Big Grin: . After 10 minutes I gave up and shoved the lot in the washing machine. Won't be doing that again ruined a perfectly good suit.

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## madasafish

I wash my bee suit by hand: perfectly good job with 30 mins soak in bio powder..  And I'm a man who are supposed to be incapable of doing washing properly...:-)

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## Black Comb

I use BB wear and find them very good. Their service is excellent and they will make any alterations ypurequire.

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## fatshark

Another satisfied BBwear customer here.  I have a couple of the full suits and a jacket.  The latter is great for quick jobs but bees can sneak under the waist elastic if you're not careful.  My oldest full suit is starting to look tatty and will need replacement thumb loops this winter and a hanging loop (not included in the original) added.  I'd go for the jacket rather than the smock for real ease of getting on and off.  I wash them in the machine after remove the veil and tucking it inside the zipped up suit.

For really bad colonies I wear the jacket - sans veil - under the full suit.  Hot as hell, but totally impervious.

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## nemphlar

Got a new smock for last Christmas, back to the tatty old jacket, they're not very handy.

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## The Drone Ranger

It's a long way off but in summer will you be baking in a a bee suit
How about one of these
http://ultrabreezesuits.com/suit/order_2011.htm
ultraBreeze_suit1.jpg

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## Rosie

I used a jacket that was identical to that (probably the same make) duirng the 2012 season.  I had bought it from Maisemore at the 2012 BBKA convention.  I was pleased at first but when I washed the veil for the first time all the black die washed out of the mesh material and all I could see then was glare. I tried a couple of methods of dying it again and after getting a black nose and forehead a few times I eventually found a spray that was semi-permanent.  Unfortunately before the end of the season the veil was in tatters.  The body of the jacket worked well but I kept getting it snagged on barbed wire.  A couple of my apiaries are fenced from sheep so I have to reach over to drop equipment over the fence.  I always get away with it with my other suits but this one was a nuisance.

Steve

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## The Drone Ranger

Thanks Steve
They are not cheap I would want a lot more than one season
The plan of overlapping mesh is good though lets the air in and as long as the spacing is right the bees won't get through
I was helping a friend this summer and we had to squeeze between the barbed wire (while held up)
After doing ten hive inspections I couldn't bend enough to get out without snagging , luckily the jacket belonged to her (biosecurity)

Anybody bought a good jacket or suit this year ?

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## prakel

> Anybody bought a good jacket or suit this year ?


Still (due to necessity) patching the one which I planned to replace at the start of this thread! Resolved the hood/zip issue by sewing the spare good hood over the top of the ripped one which had the correct size zip but now managed to burn a hole in one leg and rip the other leg on a wire fence. Next year it will be a new one, had a good shipping quote off Mann Lake earlier in the year which is obviously out of date now but maybe not by much:

rip-stop of course!
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/mm5/css/0...ipper-veil.jpg

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## fatshark

> Anybody bought a good jacket or suit this year ?


I've always bought BBwear ones and am generally pleased with them.  They're a bit hot mid-summer so I got a lightweight BBwear one this year but never got round to opening the  packet.  The only issue I have with them is the lack of a hanging loop in some and the - frankly rubbish - knicker elastic they use for the thumb loops.  I replace these.

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## Poly Hive

I tried the Dadant wire mesh veil this year and was not impressed esp as the hat refuest to sit well. So I bought a suit from here: http://www.thebeeshop.co.uk/PBSCCata...?CatID=1708425 apart from the hive tool pockeet being on for me the worng side it is standing up to my abuse very well indeed. Half the price of the premium brands (which I have had in the past) and so far a tough bit of kit. 

Smocks and stand alone veils have issues which allow bees in so not for me thanks, been there got stung and learnt that lesson. 

PH

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi PolyHive
Thanks for that link I might well give them a try can I ask, are they generously sized I don't want to get one that is too big (again)
The other thing I was wondering is does the hood have a double layer of material on your head.
I kept a pretty fierce hive going this year (stupidly) because they were filling the supers well
The smock I was wearing was a cheap one given to me by a friend 
I got stung on the top of the head loads of times including the top of the ears where they touched the material

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## Poly Hive

Yes good size. Umm let me check the hood.... single layer. Now I can honestly say I have not had a head sting with it but then again I do run pretty quiet bees. In the event of a stingy colony then I would add a hat of some sort under the hood and find and kill the queen pronto. I have had some pretty nasty units in my time but no longer put up with that nonsense. I can remember returning home with my glove so stung the leather was invisible behind the stings. Not any more thanks. 

PH

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## The Drone Ranger

Thanks PH

I normally don't put up with too much either, so have been a bit too relaxed about the bee suit, until it was put to the test 
That sort of decided me to get a replacement jacket or suit before I end up with ears a Vulcan

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## GRIZZLY

I used  to use a Thornes smock with the round hat/veil .The fencer type wasn't available at the time . This I owned for over 30 years with no trouble - except the wire in the veil finally rusted and rotted the hat material around the edge. I managed to get another year out of it by sewing the wire back again. I replaced it with a BB Wear smock with the fencer hood - a really well made article. This year I decided that I could do with a full suit and ordered a made-to -measure suit from Sherriff which I picked up and paid for at the National Honey show. Fits like a glove and was sold to me at their show price together with a free good quality hive tool and free gloves (which I never wear) - they  will be useful for one of our beginners to wear at our teaching apiary. When washing suits , the instructions always say to remove the veil and hand wash it. I've never had a veil fail me and always keep my bee wear stored out of direct sunlight. Prolonged exposure to U.V. will cause plastic veil mesh to become brittle and disintegrate in time.

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## fatshark

> When washing suits , the instructions always say to remove the veil and hand wash it.


Hi Grizzly … I've always just removed the veil and stuffed it inside the zipped-up suit before throwing the lot in the machine on a cool (40oC?) colour wash. The BBwear suits certainly cope admirably with this sort of treatment. I've not got the smock but find their jacket with fencer veil excellent for most inspections … and easy enough to don that I'm not tempted to have a 'quick look' without suiting-up (jacketing-up?). Additionally, for the truly psychotic colony*, worn under a full suit with the jacket veil removed, it provides much-needed additional protection.

* Obviously, these are not my bees …  :Wink:  For example, when I'm re-queening some hoodlums from a fellow BKA member.

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## GRIZZLY

Hi Fatshark, When I operated in Warwickshire I used to find Warwickshire bees well mannered - not hoodlums. Very good foragers as well. Must have gone downhill since my departure to Scotland.

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## EmsE

I bought the round hat veil & jacket in the Thornes sale earlier in the year after the veil on my old suit got to the point that I couldn't fix it any more. I really like that it has a zip up pocket on it for my keys (or whatever else I want to put in it ) and I can be sure they won't fall out into the hive whilst inspecting it. On the down side the hat isn't that comfortable but at least it stays in one place- away from my face.

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## The Drone Ranger

EmSe has that hat on the Thornes one got a double layer of material to protect your head ?
does it cope well if there is a breeze ?
The last round one I had was inclined to blow off my head and sail off down wind as far as the mesh would allow  :Smile:

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## Neils

I'm sold on my "astronaut" smocks despite my washing machine accident (see a few pages ago). I'm not convinced the micro fibre makes much difference in the height of summer and is a little unpleasant on bare skin when you get sweaty but the standard fabric is pretty good. The velcro has worn well and it stays in place around the wrists without resorting to those little loops of elastic.

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## Calum

Hi
I can recommend this jacket from poland very practical, and a velcro lapel tp stop your mobile phone falling out very practical. Cheap too, the guy will deliver to the UK.
dont touch the gloves though - they are useless, though I hardly ever put and on..

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## Duncan

Looks like it is German to me.

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## Calum

yes it is german, the guy imports all his gear from poland or china just like most of the rest do these days...
Some of his products are excellent, some of the stuff from china is not so good.

He has a patent on processing beeswax to foundation that kills the EFB & AFB and whatever other spores are present.
I got him to make 80kg of wax to foundation for 3€/KG.. Nice price.

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## KingBee

I also find a full suit very hot, but I discovered a ventilated bee suit last year made by Bee Proof Suits. Worth a look if you tend to overheat. It a has extra supports in the hood to stop it losing shape or blowing back into your face.

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## The Drone Ranger

http://www.mannlake.co.uk/beekeeping...ct/VS-310.html

Bought one in the sale for £100 
It feels a bit heavier until you put it on 
You are cool and it is and totally bee proof 
The hood is really good well supported and double layer
I would buy another one

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## fatshark

I know they're not the most flattering garments, but all the same ... his head appears freakishly large, almost 2/3rd the length of his legs.

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## The Drone Ranger

> I know they're not the most flattering garments, but all the same ... his head appears freakishly large, almost 2/3rd the length of his legs.


Lol! I hadn't noticed that
Must be the camera angle
Mine had its first wash today
So we will see if it shrinks and I end up like him  :Smile:

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