# General beekeeping > Bee health >  What next ....

## Bridget

Our strongest colony on brood and half has suddenly died.  Treated with Api Boixal end of Jan and seen flying since then.  Not out today when the others were so checked and all dead.  
The base was absolutely covered with bees (poly hive, mesh floor), the brood box had about 6-7 heavy frames of stores, all uncapped.  
The super was empty of stores with a very small cluster of bees in one corner which looked as thought they had starved, heads down. I suspect they had become isolated. 
on top of the super was a block of fondant about 1/3 eaten, on top of that the eke with polystyrene to fill the space.  there were dead bees above the polystyrene block which had died, and sign of dystentery, presumably as they could find their way back/stress.
No sign of deformed wings.  This was my strongest colony, queen only about 18months old. I didn't find the queen and there was no brood. 
I'm sending a bag of bees to SASA Fiona Highet - is this the right thing to do.  
Some photos - small brood starvation and isolation, super frames no stores left and a lay effect like they had tried to eat the wax (though it might be the thin wax I had in for the heather) five brood frames full of stores, close up of brood frames with stores, base of dead bees.
IMG_2617.jpgIMG_2618.jpgIMG_2622.jpgIMG_2623.jpgIMG_2624.jpg

Now I think we will make a bonfire of all the frames so not to risk any further contamination and give the hive a good clean.
I am a bit flummoxed - I understand why the bees in the super died.  I think as the hive retracted in size they mainly moved down leaving a few behind who couldn't keep warm and find the fondant.  But as to all the bees on the base ...?

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## madasafish

Second last slide looks like AFB deposits in cells... can't tell for sure so don't panic yet.

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## drumgerry

I'm just seeing heads in cells and suppurating stores there - what's saying AFB to you Madasafish?

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## Calluna4u

To my eye there is nothing especially sinister there.

The comb madasafish refers to looks to me to only be a partially robbed out frame of heather stores (you can see the right colour and consistency of remaining honey).

The dysentery is actually only very mild and looks like stress related.

The residual cluster is actually tiny.

The dead bees on the floor only reflect how tiny the colony had become and how far from the active bees they were, so no particular ability or need or morale for housecleaning.

Especially in heather areas there will be a lot of this at the end of this winter.

Suggested diagnosis is that your colony ended up, for whatever reason, queenless or with a virgin in it some time after mid summer last year. It probably never totally settled as a result and the bees remaining in it were all getting pretty old. Late heather working accelerated burnout.

So you arrive at today where the colony has expired, dead bees all over the floor (were possibly scattered around the perimeter adjacent to the crown board too.) The stores it had became the target of other colonies in the vicinity, but as it is not totally robbed the activity has been sporadic. You probably thought it was flying well at some stages late last year.

Nosema in particular can flare up in a stress situation and your sample may show this. Viruses can be found everywhere but there is nothing to indicate this being a virus death, though one of the paralysis viruses may have played a role.

The chewed super comb is the result of one of two things.........the bees tidying up after wax moth....or starving isolated bees at that spot chewing away at anything, especially if there were crystallised stores there.

Either clean out sterilise and rewax the combs, or sterilise with acetic acid fumes and just refill with bees in summer. Your combs are actually in good condition if perhaps becoming a little dark.

But as always........if in doubt check it out.......the inspectors are very friendly.

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## Bridget

> I'm just seeing heads in cells and suppurating stores there - what's saying AFB to you Madasafish?


Well the hive did smell strange Gerry - not the usual sweet but fermented came to my mind.
I just checked the SASA website and it says tests have to be requested by bee inspectors and as we are on holiday for 10 days I am going to drop the sample of bees in tomorrow and hope they will do them

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## drumgerry

I think C4U has the right of it Bridget.  Queenlessness and maybe fermented heather honey stores looming large within a range of possible causes.  Nothing you could have done differently really...

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## Bridget

> To my eye there is nothing especially sinister there.
> 
> The comb madasafish refers to looks to me to only be a partially robbed out frame of heather stores (you can see the right colour and consistency of remaining honey).
> 
> The dysentery is actually only very mild and looks like stress related.
> 
> The residual cluster is actually tiny.
> 
> The dead bees on the floor only reflect how tiny the colony had become and how far from the active bees they were, so no particular ability or need or morale for housecleaning.
> ...



As you know I am out of beekeeping for the moment so my husband was promoted in the summer so I can't tell you what I saw. However I've been keeping notes of what he saw and he is sure that during the varroa treatments in the autumn and the OA in Jan he thought the hive was very busy with bees on all frames.  However he did note, at least twice, that there was no clustering in that hive, that the bees were all over the place.  He also thought they were very unsettled and had wondered if they were queenless so that may well account for it.  However I do agree that the store frames do look like robbing rather than normal uncapping though that heather honey in them is pretty sticky.
I agree the chewed super comb is the result of starvation in the super.  I'll get those bees off to be tested just to be sure.  I've not made the bonfire yet so will sterilise the combs and throw out the black ones.  Thanks for the help Calluna4U

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## Bridget

> I think C4U has the right of it Bridget.  Queenlessness and maybe fermented heather honey stores looming large within a range of possible causes.  Nothing you could have done differently really...


Any reason why the heather honey ferments Gerry?  It was all I had to offer them this year. Maybe another year I will take off more of the heather stores and let them take down more syrup.

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## drumgerry

It was maybe stored at less than optimum water content if your bees brought it in late Bridget although ling honey naturally has a higher water content than "normal" blossom honey.   Dysentery associated with heather honey stores is usually attributed to its higher protein content.

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## RDMW

Sad pics  :Frown: 


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## Greengage

Sad you lost your bees, I hope you do let us know what happened when you get your results back as it would be educational for us all on here.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi Bridget
I have a big stack of used frames which took a lot of effort and time to clean
Cutting out black wax, steaming them ,cleaning all the grooves, scrubbing them etc
I Should have used them to light the fire instead  :Smile: 

On balance I think its easier to just to buy some brood frames because the new wax slides in easily 
The super ones will clean with a bit of steam though no trouble

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## Mellifera Crofter

Sad loss, yes, Bridget - but the combination of your photos and C4U's detailed reply was interesting.  Like Madasafish, I thought the dripping brood comb was ominous - so, I've learned.
Kitta

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## Bridget

> Sad you lost your bees, I hope you do let us know what happened when you get your results back as it would be educational for us all on here.


Yes Greengage, one of the reasons I posted all the photos was because I hoped it might be of interest, as well as shedding some light on what was happening.
Steve Sutherland, the big chief bee inspector who I contacted about the dead bees going to SASA said they were expecting a lot of Nosema after the Autumn and winter we were having.  He didn't explain why though!  
Yes I'll let you know the results when I get them back


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## Bridget

> Hi Bridget
> I have a big stack of used frames which took a lot of effort and time to clean
> Cutting out black wax, steaming them ,cleaning all the grooves, scrubbing them etc
> I Should have used them to light the fire instead 
> 
> On balance I think its easier to just to buy some brood frames because the new wax slides in easily 
> The super ones will clean with a bit of steam though no trouble


I have a steam oven that's hardly used .....now there's a thought!  


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## busybeephilip

> Yes Greengage, one of the reasons I posted all the photos was because I hoped it might be of interest, as well as shedding some light on what was happening.
> Steve Sutherland, the big chief bee inspector who I contacted about the dead bees going to SASA said they were expecting a lot of Nosema after the Autumn and winter we were having.  He didn't explain why though!  
> Yes I'll let you know the results when I get them back


Looks like dysentry or nosema, combs have been robbed out at some time, the brown messy stuff could be fermenting pollen.  Very small cluster of bees, perhaps the severe cold caused a state of isolation starvation.  I'd say that the process of dwindling has been going on for some time else all bees would be dead in the cluster and not on the floor to that extent.  Did you rear the queen yourself, it might not have mated properly or not from good breeding stock - lot of queens last season had problems mating, even the experts were reporting the same.

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## Calluna4u

> I have a steam oven that's hardly used .....now there's a thought! 
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Got an old metal bin or the likes? (Maybe even an old Burco boiler around somewhere? For small scale work they are perfect)

Chop the old combs out of the frames and set aside for melting.

Half fill bin or tank or whatever with water and add a kilo or so of washing soda (under a pound from Tesco) and bring to the boil (using a gas burner?)

Immerse the whole frames for a couple of minutes in the boiling mix, take out, wash down to take off any scum, and allow to dry. PERFECT job, the grooves will all be clear and also under the wedge bar, even all the propolis is gone. Wax slides in just as if the frame was new.

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## The Drone Ranger

Im off to boil all mine again with washing soda this time  :Smile:

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## madasafish

> I'm just seeing heads in cells and suppurating stores there - what's saying AFB to you Madasafish?


I see black cells with shiny  black deposits in the bottom..

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## drumgerry

Ok so I can enlarge the pic using my phone and I don't see bees with heads in cells as I originally thought. But I think the reflections are from stores in cells built on black comb.  In any case Bridget is having a sample of the dead bees tested so fingers crossed for a non-sinister outcome. 


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## Mellifera Crofter

> ... or sterilise with acetic acid fumes and just refill with bees in summer. ...


I am in a similar situation as Bridget.  I have a dead nucleus that became queenless.  I even found a tiny queen cell in there.

Some of the frames and combs with honey have quite a few streaks of faeces on them.  I'm always worried that an acetic acid treatment on such combs won't be sufficient - particularly when the streaks are also left on comb surfaces with honey and pollen stores.  Do you think scraping off as much of the streaks as I can and then treating them will be sufficient, or should I just melt the wax and boil the frames?

Kitta

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## Mellifera Crofter

I read your reply in the other forum, C4U - so, I'll scrape and treat and stop worrying.

Only some of the combs are lightly streaked, and they're all good combs.
Kitta

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## Bridget

> Got an old metal bin or the likes? (Maybe even an old Burco boiler around somewhere? For small scale work they are perfect)
> 
> Chop the old combs out of the frames and set aside for melting.
> 
> Half fill bin or tank or whatever with water and add a kilo or so of washing soda (under a pound from Tesco) and bring to the boil (using a gas burner?)
> 
> Immerse the whole frames for a couple of minutes in the boiling mix, take out, wash down to take off any scum, and allow to dry. PERFECT job, the grooves will all be clear and also under the wedge bar, even all the propolis is gone. Wax slides in just as if the frame was new.


Well actually this is what we did just a couple of weeks ago .... 
We even were using the Tesco soda.  For once we were doing it right and will do the same again with these frames.  However I found that melting down the wax was a real waste of time.  I got very little decent wax out of it and was t worth the hassle.  
I am lucky that we get these barrels in at work and our maintenance guy did a good job in making it for me.  It was boiled up using the gas paella stove!


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## chairman dave

> Our strongest colony on brood and half has suddenly died.  Treated with Api Boixal end of Jan and seen flying since then.  Not out today when the others were so checked and all dead.  
> The base was absolutely covered with bees (poly hive, mesh floor), the brood box had about 6-7 heavy frames of stores, all uncapped.  
> The super was empty of stores with a very small cluster of bees in one corner which looked as thought they had starved, heads down. I suspect they had become isolated. 
> on top of the super was a block of fondant about 1/3 eaten, on top of that the eke with polystyrene to fill the space.  there were dead bees above the polystyrene block which had died, and sign of dystentery, presumably as they could find their way back/stress.
> No sign of deformed wings.  This was my strongest colony, queen only about 18months old. I didn't find the queen and there was no brood. 
> I'm sending a bag of bees to SASA Fiona Highet - is this the right thing to do.  
> Some photos - small brood starvation and isolation, super frames no stores left and a lay effect like they had tried to eat the wax (though it might be the thin wax I had in for the heather) five brood frames full of stores, close up of brood frames with stores, base of dead bees.
> Attachment 2578Attachment 2579Attachment 2580Attachment 2581Attachment 2582
> 
> ...


There is one single word in the post that comes into the equation and it is *''retracted''.*

An abnormally low air pressure system will cause the lungs of people, horses, dogs and bees to retract during daylight or darkness. This leads to hypoxia. Kingussie is between 200-400 metres above sea level.

In the case of kept bees, the owner might find the whole hive filled with dead bees following a depression, particularly in Scotland at high altitude.

I would suggest that all Scottish and Irish bee-keepers should keep a close eye on weather forecasts and warning of approaching depressions.

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## The Drone Ranger

I sense depression coming on any minute

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## Mellifera Crofter

> ...
> In the case of kept bees, the owner might find the whole hive filled with dead bees following a depression, particularly in Scotland at high altitude.
> ...


Oh. That explains my dead nucleus, and not the load of Nosema spores I saw on a glass slide under my microscope.

The little buggers were still moving about on the slide. Now that did more than depress me.

I'm going to scrub the hive again with bleach, and I'm back to worrying about steaks of poo I might have left on the combs.  Perhaps I'll just melt them all down.

Like Bridget, I'll send a sample to SASA to confirm my finding as this was my first use of a microscope to identify disease.

Kitta

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## The Drone Ranger

6 frames and wax from Thornes about £12 
I do hope those were streaks of poo Kitta, steaks sound more like a cow might moved in
Anoxia ?  )

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## Mellifera Crofter

Streaks! Streaks of poo from my anoxic bees. (I had to look up anoxia.)
Kitta

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## alancooper

> There is one single word in the post that comes into the equation and it is *''retracted''.*
> 
> An abnormally low air pressure system will cause the lungs of people, horses, dogs and bees to retract during daylight or darkness. This leads to hypoxia. Kingussie is between 200-400 metres above sea level. In the case of kept bees, the owner might find the whole hive filled with dead bees following a depression, particularly in Scotland at high altitude. I would suggest that all Scottish and Irish bee-keepers should keep a close eye on weather forecasts and warning of approaching depressions.


About two weeks ago I found lots of dead bees (old) on the mesh floor of a large colony and following the comments of Calluna C4, I put it down to a Q that had stopped laying at the end of August when the hive had masses of bees and great slabs of sealed brood (she was still present in mid-Oct but no eggs). 

Having read your comment on hypoxia and depressions and mused on DRs observation on depression, I then Googled on "hypoxia in honey bees", trying to decide if both of you might have had cabin fever  :Smile:   and found a summary of a 1997 Comp.Biochem.Physiol, 117A,445-455 paper. It seems that large colonies are susceptible to hypoxia after all, particularly large colonies. The SBA site is so interesting.
AC

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## The Drone Ranger

Holding my breath !!!? 💨
Well researched AC it seems the bees do it deliberately so they can enter a comotose state and extend their lives
I think it's having the opposite effect on me 
Wonder where that leaves OMF's

The dog is still using up too much oxygen
But now I think that's a good thing, sadly he is also producing methane which we could all do without
It has helped motivate me into holding my breath for longer though 😵


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## Bridget

*The SASA Results are in:
*Varroa mites:  No mites present
Acarine disease: Negative
Nosema sp: Negative

They suggest that the "likely cause of this colony loss was fermented stores and subsequent starvation.  This would explain the signs of dysentery, plus the uncapped but uneaten stores which the bees had subsequently moved above" 


The brood box had plenty of frames of honey stores which was mainly heather, the super had much less.  However for a short while in the autumn (as they were not off the heather until the very end of September) they were given syrup.  This hive did not take much of it down.  I am hedging a guess that they used the super frames to store the syrup which was easier to consume (they also ate about 1/3 of the fondant which was about a 2kg block).
So why did the honey stores ferment? and what do I do in future to prevent this happening?  Another guess would be that possibly I could remove some of the frames from the brood box in the late summer, early autumn and give them some drawn frames to store syrup in.

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## The Drone Ranger

Do you use brood and a half overwintering often Bridget ?

I'm not keen because although they don't mind crossing a gap on the way up
Once they are in the super they sometimes stay there and wont cross back to stores below them

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## Mellifera Crofter

> ...
> So why did the honey stores ferment? and what do I do in future to prevent this happening?  Another guess would be that possibly I could remove some of the frames from the brood box in the late summer, early autumn and give them some drawn frames to store syrup in.





> Do you use brood and a half overwintering often Bridget ?
> 
> I'm not keen because although they don't mind crossing a gap on the way up
> Once they are in the super they sometimes stay there and wont cross back to stores below them


Yes, I would also like to know, Bridget.  Did they move up to the warmth and easier food before they've capped the stores in the brood box?

Instead of using a super, might it help to use Ian Craig's method of over-wintering his bees: two brood boxes with the sides dummied down.  You won't then have the problem DR mentioned.

I also got my results back from SASA, and my reading of my slides was correct. The nucleus colony was riddled with Nosema.

Kitta

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## Bridget

> Do you use brood and a half overwintering often Bridget ?
> 
> I'm not keen because although they don't mind crossing a gap on the way up
> Once they are in the super they sometimes stay there and wont cross back to stores below them


First time I've had a big enough colony to need to give them more space through the winter DR.  I did wonder in the late autumn if I should have used a dummied down brood box on top and I will certainly do that next time.  


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## Kate Atchley

Bridget, so sorry you lost these bees. 

I was wondering about leaving the bees on the heather till end September. Maybe the syrup was fed after that? There was some of that occasional good weather early October, so the bees around here were still foraging vigorously at that time. Yours too perhaps. So were the bees taking in/down more nectar/syrup than they could condense straight away and once the colder weather set in it became difficult to do this, so some stores were left uncapped and unfinished? 

Also, I wondered how early the fondant was fed to them? It was a mild Autumn up to Christmas, so were the bees trying to store from that block too ... again adding to the strain on the hive to drive off enough moisture from the stores?

Here I take any honey off by mid-September latest (there's heather around – I don't move the bees) so that any feeding is finished by the end of the month and the bees take any autumn forage for themselves. Maybe I'm being too cautious but we have notoriously unpredictable weather!

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## The Drone Ranger

> [B]T
> So why did the honey stores ferment? and what do I do in future to prevent this happening?  .


Hi Bridget 
As you know fermentation is because of yeasts and moulds

I've kept supers of crystalised rape in the shed overwinter intending to use in Spring
They mostly just fermented and ended up melted down

So if there was a bit of robbing or uncapping the moisture gets drawn in and fermentation could start

I agree with your thinking that the best place for stores is above the cluster as Winter sets in

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## Calluna4u

Part of Bridgets problem may well be that last year was terribly strange and late, and in her area, where we keep several heather apiaries, the heather was still yielding commercially significant amounts of nectar until around 24th to 26th September. This is more than two weeks later than we have EVER seen it before. We were astonished at how much honey the colonies from Newtonmore north to Aviemore packed away after our last visit at the start of Sept, and around Kincraig we though the average would be under 5Kg and yet they got up to over 20Kg. This undoubtedly beat the winter bees up a bit.

However....the report you have back is only about diseases, and the lab cannot see the combs unless you sent those in too, and its not their job to comment on status regarding queenlessness or otherwise. Several have agreed that you underlying cause was *probably* queen loss. The spotting on the frames is merely the result of very unsettled bees and this is commonplace if there is no queen and thus no pheromone to keep them calm.

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## busybeephilip

> *The SASA Results are in:
> *Varroa mites:  No mites present
> Acarine disease: Negative
> Nosema sp: Negative



Did they not check for foul brood as well ?

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## Bridget

> Did they not check for foul brood as well ?


No they say in their letter they can only test for adult diseases during these tests so if you suspect brood disease to contact your inspector.  I did that and gave him the full story of what had gone on.  I'm sure he would have suggested a visit if he thought there was foul brood present. 
There was no old brood, nor sign of brood in these frames, given it was winter I'm not surprised.  However there was also no sign of any of the symptoms of foul brood which might have dated back to the autumn.

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## Bridget

> Bridget, so sorry you lost these bees. 
> 
> I was wondering about leaving the bees on the heather till end September. Maybe the syrup was fed after that? There was some of that occasional good weather early October, so the bees around here were still foraging vigorously at that time. Yours too perhaps. So were the bees taking in/down more nectar/syrup than they could condense straight away and once the colder weather set in it became difficult to do this, so some stores were left uncapped and unfinished? 
> 
> Also, I wondered how early the fondant was fed to them? It was a mild Autumn up to Christmas, so were the bees trying to store from that block too ... again adding to the strain on the hive to drive off enough moisture from the stores?
> 
> Here I take any honey off by mid-September latest (there's heather around – I don't move the bees) so that any feeding is finished by the end of the month and the bees take any autumn forage for themselves. Maybe I'm being too cautious but we have notoriously unpredictable weather!


Thanks Kate - thank goodness you did not put "sorry for your loss" or RIP as I see on an certain a more southern based bee forum!

My bees are naturally on heather and I don't move them but as Calluna4U says they were still taking it down end of September in this area.  We did feed syrup but it was not until mid October when we did the varroa treatment.  I know this was very late for that but it worked well and once we had taken the strips off we gave them Fondant, end of November.  The reason was that they had been so active throughout the autumn that I was worried they might need it.  I suppose trying to cover all options, especially as I can no longer actually look at the bees so my husband sort of relays everything back to me to make a decision! 
But all the hives were treated the same and the others were out flying today, air temp only 4 degrees with all the snow on the hills. The only difference with this colony was that it was super big going into mid October.

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## Kate Atchley

> Thanks Kate - thank goodness you did not put "sorry for your loss" or RIP as I see on an certain a more southern based bee forum! ...
> But all the hives were treated the same and the others were out flying today, air temp only 4 degrees with all the snow on the hills. The only difference with this colony was that it was super big going into mid October.


All the more upsetting to lose a "super big" bunch of bees.

Mine were out flying and bringing in pollen today though not quite so cold as with you – 6.5º. Ahhh Spring is unfolding gently!

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## Bridget

> All the more upsetting to lose a "super big" bunch of bees.
> 
> Mine were out flying and bringing in pollen today though not quite so cold as with you – 6.5º. Ahhh Spring is unfolding gently!


No pollen here - even the snowdrops are still closed up.  False spring I suspect as we are still to have the annual "lambing storm"

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## SDM

Spring looks set to ... well , spring into action from this weekend with the far north of Scotland being the warmest in the country over the next 10 days. It looks like a fortnight of double figure temps for you, which should get those snowdrops open. Acres of snowdrops by me wasted as they opened just as this cold snap arrived.

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## Kate Atchley

Another glorious morning here ... nearly 6º already. We must be benefitting from being on the west coast and near the sea. The snowdrops have been exquisite and are going over now. Crocuses and hellebores are past their best. Greylags feeding in the fields on their way north. Birds calling for mates in the garden. No doubt about Spring!
And here I am inside at my computer preparing a presentation for a local association!

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## The Drone Ranger

I'm sunbathing on the East coast Kate  :Smile:

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## Bridget

For the first time since I've had bees the snow drops are out when the weather is good so they are taking advantage. I've taken off the mouse guards so they can have a good clean out but I'll put them back on the minute the weather changes. Christmas roses and the few crocus the squirrels haven't robbed are almost stripped of their pollen but it might be a while for anything else starts flowering here.


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## drumgerry

Is there no hazel round by you Bridget?  Hazels are laden with pollen down the strath by us.

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## Bridget

> Is there no hazel round by you Bridget?  Hazels are laden with pollen down the strath by us.


Wow, I'll have a look but the hazel in our garden hasn't even got decent buds yet. Wait, perhaps it's hawthorn not hazel.  I'm rubbish with trees, except birch and pines of course.


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## Kate Atchley

> Wow, I'll have a look but the hazel in our garden hasn't even got decent buds yet. Wait, perhaps it's hawthorn not hazel.  I'm rubbish with trees, except birch and pines of course.


Hazel has those lovely catkins which look fluffy and yellow with pollen at the moment. Around us here in the west the alder trees are also flowering well this year ... catkins again.

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## alancooper

I have European alder (Alnus incana) in a hedge which flowers in Feb but no signs of the native alder (Alnus glutinosa) which flowers later. I know that "west is best" currently, but do you know if it is glutinosa or incana you have?

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## Kate Atchley

> I have European alder (Alnus incana) in a hedge which flowers in Feb but no signs of the native alder (Alnus glutinosa) which flowers later. I know that "west is best" currently, but do you know if it is glutinosa or incana you have?


Alan, I checked online to identify the sub-species and I'm pretty sure it's alnus glutinosa. The catkins, in particular, seem indicative. They don't have the extra spots of incana. The tree is interwoven with a rambling holly tree which _still_ has berries!

IMG_1059.jpg IMG_1070.jpg

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## Bridget

Is this Hazel Kate
If so no catkins on it.
Spent this morning planting a ribes hedge in front of the bee house.  I'm going to plant some Hazel through it too.  Our bee house has no trees or hedges near it.  I know it seems that the bees are well enough sheltered but I've noticed that bee houses on the continent are often set back into trees or bushes.  It's also to get the bees up in the air and hopefully over my allergic head.  We have piggies arriving soon and they will be situated quite near to the bees.  I will still have to wear protection of course, gardening in a bee suit makes for a very grubby suit ....... But hopefully there won't be bees whizzing past my ears making me run for cover.  
Still waiting for the appointment in Dundee.  I realise my doctor doesn't reckon it's life threatening .....sigh..... but it's taken him till last week to write to Dundee.  Only 7 months since I first raised it with the surgery and 6 weeks since I found a doctor there who I was able to persuade to do something about it.  Sigh again ......


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## Calluna4u

Italy trip Jan14 085.jpg

This is hazel. The male long lamb tail cathkins are the dead giveaway. The female cathkins are tiny red things, quite hard to spot unless you are looking closely.

Your tree looks a bit too robust for a hazel.

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## drumgerry

Hazel also tends to throw up straight shoots with nice shiny smooth bark much beloved of stick makers rather than the gnarled look they have on that tree Bridget

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## Bridget

Oh well I'll have to have another walk out tomorrow to see if I can find one


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