# General beekeeping > Everything and anything >  Slugs in hives

## Bumble

Checking the fondant situation today, one colony had a large slug stretched out along the crown board between *each* frame. That's at least 8 slugs in one hive - I couldn't see the whole length of the frames because there's fondant on top of the crown board. (Won't do that again!) The slugs are huge, probably about 6 inches long.

I'm guessing they got in through the entrance, while the bees weren't looking.

I decided to leave them, until it's warm enough to meddle with inside the hives, but now I'm wondering if I should have made the effort to remove them today.

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## gavin

I'm not sure that they do any harm but it certainly has a yuck factor to find them in there.  By the time you put supers on they'll be elsewhere.  I pick them off when I find them but I'm sure that they find their way back.

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## Bumble

I'm glad it's nothing too unusual. Hopefully they will go away on their own.

I've seen tiny ones before, but never these giant ones. I think they're Leopard or Tiger slugs. The yuk factor is around 150%!

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## Ely

I found a dead snail entombed in wax at the bottom of a frame last year. I guess it was moving that slowly the bees built around it hehe

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## Silvbee

> Checking the fondant situation today, one colony had a large slug stretched out along the crown board between *each* frame. That's at least 8 slugs in one hive - I couldn't see the whole length of the frames because there's fondant on top of the crown board. (Won't do that again!) The slugs are huge, probably about 6 inches long.
> 
> I'm guessing they got in through the entrance, while the bees weren't looking.
> 
> I decided to leave them, until it's warm enough to meddle with inside the hives, but now I'm wondering if I should have made the effort to remove them today.


You might want to look at the hives ventilation as slugs and snails need it damp to survive. Condensation may be buildling up in the hive hence so many slugs.

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## Bumble

It's a poly hive with an open mesh floor, on an open stand about 18 inches high. Polycarbonate crown board with fondant above. Good top insulation.

It's been very wet, much of the ground is waterlogged but there isn't anything we can do about it. Slugs are about the only thing we've managed to grow in the past twelve months. There's no point in trying to move them elsewhere, everywhere within miles is wet.

In this situation would you increase ventilation by raising the crown board?

@ Ely - waxed snails. Would there be a market for those?

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## Dark Bee

> ..................................................  ........@ Ely - waxed snails. Would there be a market for those?


Call the product  "Escarcot Cire" and yes there will be a market for them :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Ely

I'm sure the french would eat them. 

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## chris

Only those that run more slowly than Irish race horses.

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## Dark Bee

> Only those that run more slowly than Irish race horses.


Why Irish race horses? 
A cursory inspection of the winners of all the major races going back however many years you choose, will show a disproportionate number to have originated here in Ireland. You might specifically like to check how many French horses have won the Grand National and Cheltenham :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  It might be unkind to speculate how many have won the "Prix de arc de Triomphe!
In fact you ought to ride an Irish hunter across a stiff piece of country yourself sometime and slow may not be what comes to your mind :Smile:

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## Bumble

Maybe we could do slug racing?

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## The Drone Ranger

http://www.hgca.com/document.aspx?fn...icationId=2770
surprised there are any slugs left check link

The pollen beetle might be in short supply as well
http://www.hgca.com/document.aspx?fn...icationId=9242

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## Jon

DR.
You could start your own flea circus only in your case use pollen beetles.
Fleas are so passé.
I can just picture you as a ringmaster making those hapless beetles jump through hoops and do handstands.
Roll up roll up.




EDIT
Just trying to rehabilitate Paul McCartney after the highlighting of his worst moments re. Mull of Kintyre and the frogs

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## The Drone Ranger

I have exterminated braula at the same time as varroa I think
I'm a bit guilty about it  :Smile: 

Apparently it's sir Paul now and the frogs chorus was dropped from wings live set around the time the vegetarian pork pie fiasco
I can't keep up with music these days
Was he in the beatles as well as wings ??

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## Bumble

An update.

If I see slugs inside a hive again I'll hoof them out, and be liberal with the (organic) pellets around and under the hive stand.

There were nine large (Tiger?) slugs inside the hive. Some were on the underside of the crown board between the frame tops, others were lower down, in between the outer frames. Each one surrounded by a generous layer of slime. The slime had soaked into the top bars and mildewed them. They had also munched their way through the outer empty frames, leaving a disgusting slime trail. I removed those frames and replaced them with new.

I couldn't see any evidence that they had damaged, or got near, any brood. I couldn't remove all the mildewed frames because they are full of brood (did you notice the 'brag'?) so I'm hoping they will dry out without being weakened in any way.

I can't work out why this one hive was targetted, because there were no slugs in any of the others. They're all poly hives, set up in the same way and within a couple of yards of each other.

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## The Drone Ranger

I had 2 polynucs through winter, and although the bees survived, a mouse had enlarged the entrance gone in and munched up some comb
Was he looking for a tasty slug or two ?

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## Easy beesy

> I have exterminated braula at the same time as varroa I think
> I'm a bit guilty about it ??


Don't worry - loads in the IOM. Would you like some?

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## Easy beesy

Slugs in my poly nucs too. Do you use the plastic crown board thingy they supply?  I think it's that.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Slugs in my poly nucs too. Do you use the plastic crown board thingy they supply?  I think it's that.


I'm glad the Braula are flourishing in IOM
I didn't even know about the plastic crown boards existence
One time after a fruitless 30 min search for the queen I found her on the set aside lid of the Paynes nuc
That's the first place I check now  :Smile:

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## Dark Bee

> Only those that run more slowly than Irish race horses.


You have not as yet provided any elaboration on the above. What were you attempting to convey?

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## Jon

> You have not as yet provided any elaboration on the above. What were you attempting to convey?


Humour, DB.
Happens sometimes on the bee forums.

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## Bumble

> Slugs in my poly nucs too. Do you use the plastic crown board thingy they supply?  I think it's that.


My hives didn't come with a plastic crownboard, but I had them cut from a sheet of acrylic. I don't think that's what encouraged the slugs, because they're on all the hives - and the slugs were only in one. 




> Humour, DB.
> Happens sometimes on the bee forums.


 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  I think related to the recent meat processing problems.

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## Dark Bee

> Humour, DB.
> Happens sometimes on the bee forums.


Would that it were. We have not been favoured with an expansion so I fear the op must have returned unexpectedly early one afternoon and found a jockey under the bed, that would certainly explain the acerbic comment, especially if the joc was Irish. Perhaps he is disappointed that when the two French horses in this years Grand National finished, it was too late for photographs. The Prix de L'arc de Triomphe has been won most frequently by French horses ( not surprising as it's a french race and the handicapper is usually to be relied upon), but Ireland, a country which is but a fraction of the size of France is next in producing winners .
 The whole suggestion of Irish thoroughbreds being slow is preposterous and a slur on any horse that ever looked through a bridle, insulting to those who produce these animals and shows contempt for the stable boys and girls who receive but little recognition for their hard work. 
I shall not comment further and as far as I'm concerned the matter is now closed. But if Chriss Cross or whatever he calls himself, would like to ride an Irish hunter(point to point) or a thoroughbred then we will certainly accomodate him.

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## The Drone Ranger

fast and tasty as well

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## Dark Bee

> fast and tasty as well


Appoint your seconds Sir,
I will have satisfaction.

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## Jon

> fast and tasty as well


LOL at local fast food. Never been a better time to be a vegetarian.
And we still don't know who ate Shergar.




> I fear the op must have returned unexpectedly early one afternoon and found a jockey....


It was a slug he found stretched out between two frames, eight of them in fact, enough for a decent race.

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## chris

> Only those that run more slowly than Irish race horses.


Ok DB. As you seem to have taken offense, there is nothing I wrote that implies that an Irish race horse runs slowly.My phrase states that the French would only eat snails that run more slowly than an Irish race horse, i.e. all snails. The choice of an IRISH race horse as opposed to a FRENCH race horse was that we can sometimes catch (and therefore eat) FRENCH race horses (as the recent illegal horse meat scandal shows) whereas we could never catch an IRISH race horse.Because they (the IRISH race horses) run faster.
I love explaining jokes, even bad ones. I can't make the smilies work: perhaps that's how wars start.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Appoint your seconds Sir,
> I will have satisfaction.


Lol!  'fraid it will have to be that murderin injun Tonto though frankly I wouldn't trust him to load a fridge
There's hardly a buffalo or horse anywhere safe from him he'll eat anything which makes me wonder if he might have some French ancestry in his bloodline
Still I digress 
I choose insults at dawn

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## Bumble

> Appoint your seconds ...


Can you choose meringue, or apple pie and custard?  :Smile:

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## The Drone Ranger

> Can you choose meringue, or apple pie and custard?


If that's a possible option I choose apple pie

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## Trog

I prefer a starter, given the choice ... so would that make the seconds thirds?

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## Jon

Only if DB gets his Stewards Enquiry upheld.

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## Dark Bee

> Lol!  
> 
> I choose insults at dawn


I heard a cuckoo this morning at 6.35 am. 
I take that as indicating that God is on my side.

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## Dark Bee

> Can you choose meringue, or apple pie and custard?


Rhubarb with custard is the only choice now - DR has nicked all the others.

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## The Drone Ranger

> I heard a cuckoo this morning at 6.35 am. 
> I take that as indicasting that God is on my side.


That Cuckoo was 5 feet 10" tall and only has two feathers in his headband

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## Dark Bee

> That Cuckoo was 5 feet 10" tall and only has two feathers in his headband


I really did hear a cuckoo early this morning as I walked along the mountains. The corncrake once so numerous here is now extinct - would that I could hear one.

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## Dark Bee

> I prefer a starter, given the choice ... so would that make the seconds thirds?



Never mind the starters - watch the finishers :Cool:

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## The Drone Ranger

> I really did hear a cuckoo early this morning as I walked along the mountains. The corncrake once so numerous here is now extinct - would that I could hear one.


I was sure that would have been Tonto 
I sent him scouting but he probably went down the pub instead
What has happened to the corncrake ??

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## Jon

> What has happened to the corncrake ??


Tonto likely killed the last one in Ireland and ate it by the campfire.

I think they are now confined to a few places out west.
We had them in Belfast in the bog meadows until about 20 years ago.

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## The Drone Ranger

Corn Crake.jpg
this is one 

Wait a minute what's tonto got on his head
tonto (2).jpg

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## The Drone Ranger

tonto2.jpg

Ha ha
Just kidding as you can see it's only a cuckoo laying an egg in his brain

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## Dark Bee

> tonto2.jpg
> 
> Ha ha
> Just kidding as you can see it's only a cuckoo laying an egg in his brain


A relative of the gentleman in my avatar wants a word with you now.

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## The Drone Ranger

It looks like a bear am I right ?

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## Jon

> It looks like a bear am I right ?


Irish woodpecker

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## Dark Bee

> It looks like a bear am I right ?


No, but there is no need to resist the urge to try again - now why has Robert Bruce suddenly come to mind???

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## Dark Bee

> Irish woodpecker


A genuine photograph, but not of a woodpecker (either Irish or Scottish).

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## Jon

Irish sasquatch

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## The Drone Ranger

> No, but there is no need to resist the urge to try again - now why has Robert Bruce suddenly come to mind???


Is it a spider  :Smile:

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## The Drone Ranger

Sasquatch Jon ?

is that a pinemarten relative
or the abominable bigfoot 
I've never heard of sasquatch before
(it looks a bit like a tree but thats probably too obvious)

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## Dark Bee

You two badly need to get to Specsavers. But on second thoughts it would be better, I mean safer, to have them come to you.

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## Dark Bee

> Is it a spider


A Sterling answer.

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## The Drone Ranger

> You two badly need to get to Specsavers. But on second thoughts it would be better, I mean safer, to have them come to you.


LOL can't top that  :Smile: 

is it a honey badger ?

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## Jon

Irish honey badgers?
Even rarer than the Irish Sasquatch or the corncrake.

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## Dark Bee

It is scarcely believable that two individuals who devote their time to telling others how to graft bee larvae, cannot identify what is shown in a clear black and white photo. The youth of today - the country is finished. They must have tin-eyes, can any other kind person help them?

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## Jon

Irish stick insect..

Tree Labrador...

Mike Bispham checking one of his bait hives...

Borderbeeman looking for Armageddon in Kew gardens..

Your turn DR. Honey Badger..Pah! Get real.

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## Dark Bee

The honey badger is a creature of the tropics - It is quite a long time since these parts had a tropical climate, also if one might be so bold as to comment; canine breed recognition seems to be quite challenging for you.

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## Jon

So it is a dog other than a Labrador?

Oak Terrier.

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## The Drone Ranger

> So it is a dog other than a Labrador?
> 
> Oak Terrier.


Ok I looked at the name of the image 
threeclimbingdoberman.jpg
So the clue will be in the name 
its three dobermans (dobermen ?)

Jon is the grafter I'm just a lazy snelgrover

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## Jon

As I mentioned before, I am really short sighted and I graft with my specs off so I can focus right down to the comb.
It actually makes grafting a lot easier.

Afghan Treecreeper

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## Dark Bee

> Ok I looked at the name of the image 
> threeclimbingdoberman.jpg
> So the clue will be in the name 
> its three dobermans (dobermen ?)
> 
> Jon is the grafter I'm just a lazy snelgrover


Congratulations Mr Grafter and Mr Snelgrover, by the process of elimination  you finally got there, well done. 
It is a dobermann climbing a tree and dates from the 1930's. Please use two "n's" when writing, the amount of extra ink that you will use is miniscule. The breed is named after a gentleman of that name from Apoldo.

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## Trog

Is it climbing the tree to Pinsch some honey?

[pedantry/pedantree alert: one 'n' is an acceptable spelling according to the online source of all knowledge]

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## Jon

So why can my lab pointer cross not climb trees?
When she chases a squirrel up a tree she stands and barks at the base as opposed to scaling up the trunk like an Orangutang or a Doberman(n)
Have I been sold a pup?

That Doberman(n) looks like it has been nailed or glued to the trunk by an exploitative or cruel owner.

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## The Drone Ranger

this is the oak terrier at work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1EjjQ2NzSM

Now Dark bee I'm sure there is a sensible reason for your Avatar but it eludes me
is it a pincher as Trog suggests

Ps today I have cold + strong wind which is interfering with hive inspection

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## Dark Bee

> Is it climbing the tree to Pinsch some honey?
> 
> [pedantry/pedantree alert: one 'n' is an acceptable spelling according to the online source of all knowledge]


No, honey is not the object of his desire, a cousin of Jon's orang-outang is just above him.
Spelling the name with one "n" is an americanism. The dog is named after the founder of the breed - Herr Fridrich Louis Dobermann and was originally known as the dobermann pinscher. It is now officially just known as a "dobermann" and is allegedly the only breed named after a person.
Those of us who are fortunate enough to own working dobermanns from eastern Europe, regard the omission of the second "n" as indicating that the owner and dog are of the show dog persuasion - i.e. physically and mentally far removed from what a dobermann should be. ( During the occupation of Germany in the last war - the russians "took" many or all of the best dobermanns back to Russia, that is why there are outstanding examples of the breed there today - also in Serbia.)

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## The Drone Ranger

Goodness knows what happened to all the best ones in the Korean war but we can guess
wonder if Tesco are checking the Bratwurst coming out of the area

I relying on anonymity here so if Gavin is captured I hope he can withstand torture and protect me from reprisals from you know who

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## Jon

> this is the oak terrier at work
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1EjjQ2NzSM


LOL
I was only joking. That is impressive.
Squirrel - be very afraid!

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## Feckless Drone

[QUOTE=Dark Bee;18341] It is now officially just known as a "dobermann" and is allegedly the only breed named after a person.

What about the King Charles? and the Scottie - after the famous astro-engineer?

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## Dark Bee

[QUOTE=Feckless Drone;18348]


> It is now officially just known as a "dobermann" and is allegedly the only breed named after a person.
> 
> What about the King Charles? and the Scottie - after the famous astro-engineer?


My forebears fought for parliament. Cavalier spaniels; perish the thought.

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## Trog

I wonder if the owner of the handsome scottie down town would understand if I greeted it with, "Beam me up"?

Can anyone remember how the conversation turned from slugs in hives to dogs, not-in-hives?

[back on topic] I expect the slugs have all slithered back inside the hives, given the cold weather ...

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## Dark Bee

> So why can my lab pointer cross not climb trees?
> When she chases a squirrel up a tree she stands and barks at the base as opposed to scaling up the trunk like an Orangutang or a Doberman(n)
> Have I been sold a pup?
> 
> That Doberman(n) looks like it has been nailed or glued to the trunk by an exploitative or cruel owner.


We had an.... erm..... "scrap metal merchant" up a holly tree here a week or two ago. He was most offensive when I tried to hand him a saw to lop off the topmost branch to save getting a ladder to do it at a later date. Still I suppose it is unwise to cutoff the branch one is clinging to.

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## The Drone Ranger

> I wonder if the owner of the handsome scottie down town would understand if I greeted it with, "Beam me up"?
> 
> Can anyone remember how the conversation turned from slugs in hives to dogs, not-in-hives?
> 
> [back on topic] I expect the slugs have all slithered back inside the hives, given the cold weather ...


Fairs fair we did have a spell on horses as well  :Smile:

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## Jon

Yes, good lord, it would be ridiculous to go straight from slugs to dogs without passing via horses.

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## The Drone Ranger

and the occasional reference to pies ,Tesco ,orang utangs and other animals to which I would like to add Koala 
While not known for speed they are pretty good tree climbers

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## Bumble

> [back on topic] I expect the slugs have all slithered back inside the hives, given the cold weather ...


They won't have done, not unless they had built up local resistance to little blue pellets.




> It is now officially just known as a "dobermann" and is allegedly the only breed named after a person.


I knew somebody who bred a dog called Brian. He was a heinz type of dog, but he was named after a person all the same. Does that count? Didn't climb trees though, just stood near them every so often and boosted the soil fertility.

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## austintexasbeewrangler

> slugs and snails need it damp to survive


I have noticed, even in the heat of Texas, our honey bees benefit most in full sun. Perhaps moving the bees to a brighter location. This is challenging, as you must keep in mind the circumference bees travel. I always pitch my langstroth hives slightly forward to help with drainage of water.

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## The Drone Ranger

> I have noticed, even in the heat of Texas, our honey bees benefit most in full sun. Perhaps moving the bees to a brighter location. This is challenging, as you must keep in mind the circumference bees travel. I always pitch my langstroth hives slightly forward to help with drainage of water.


Hi there
Down in texas you might have more to worry about than slugs though
Are the africanised bees gradually working their way up from the south and causing you problems ?

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## Mellifera Crofter

> I have noticed, even in the heat of Texas, our honey bees benefit most in full sun. ...


Yes, I've noticed that.  Up here on my hill I had to choose between wind or sun and chose the first.  I now think I should move them towards the sun and just keep the the hives nearer to ground level to protect them from the wind or keep the varroa trays in.  The trees only provide wind protection from one direction anyway.

The occasional slug is not a problem.  I've seen them turned into 'biltong' (or jerky).  Made me wonder whether they were stung to death.
Kitta

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## Bumble

My bees aren't brave enough to sting these huge slugs. Still getting them, but they're tucking themselves in the groove beneath the frame lugs now. 

Only one hive is affected, it's annoying. They make so much slime that they're making the frames mouldy.

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## The Drone Ranger

I haven't used Hive Clean it's a powder like Exomite Apis was
The Exomite stuff discourages wasps from trying to get into nuc entrances 
Maybe slugs wouldn't cross it to get in the hive

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## gavin

Alternatively get the hives on wooden stands and use grease bands on the legs? 

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## The Drone Ranger

> Alternatively get the hives on wooden stands and use grease bands on the legs? 
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk


I have all mine on 12 -14" high stands and it never occurred to me they could be on the ground
Good idea 
Slugs like it when folk use the sugar dusting for varroa
They have a sweet tooth (actually they don't have teeth )

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## gavin

> Slugs like it when folk use the sugar dusting for varroa


That's an excellent line to use to try to get folk to stop pussying about with ineffective Varroa control and use something that will actually help get your bees through the winter.

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## Dark Bee

> I have all mine on 12 -14" high stands and it never occurred to me they could be on the ground
> Good idea 
> Slugs like it when folk use the sugar dusting for varroa
> They have a sweet tooth (actually they don't have teeth )


Hive stands also help to prevent hives being toppled by the wind in areas of severe exposure, i.e. the western sea board of Ireland, where the next parish is in New York or Newfoundland. There needs to be about 12"of space beneath the hive to allow the wind to blow through and then the number of concrete blocks on the roof can be reduced substantially!!! 
There is a caveat, the legs of the stand need to splay outwards in the ratio of approx. 1:4. If the legs are vertical, the problem will be exacerbated.

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## Jon

Don't kid yourself DB. They can blow off stands as well. We had two blown clean off the stand at the association apiary after a storm in May a couple of years ago.
They are solid stands as well.

Minnowburn queen rearing1.jpg prime genetic material.jpg

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## Finno

Probably leopard slugs - fairly harmless but repulsive.  I had one hive in a damp location and shaded by sycamore which was continually infested, even though it was raised on knee-high wooden stand. I flicked them out at each inspection, but they would be there again when I would next open up.  
This from wikipedia probably explains their ability to return ...
_"The homing faculty is strongly developed in this species, which, after its nocturnal rambles or foraging expeditions, usually returns to the particular crevice or chink in which it has established itself.[4]
Limax maximus is capable of associative learning, specifically classical conditioning, because it is capable of aversion learning and other types of learning.[16][17] They can also detect that there are deficiencies in a nutritionally incomplete diet, if the essential amino acid methionine is experimentally removed from their food.[18]"_

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## Jon

At my apiary I flick the slugs over the railway fence on to the track so that hopefully they get mashed by the Belfast - Dublin express.
Anything sticking to the side of a train will end up within the Pale do DB had better be vigilant.

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## Dark Bee

> Don't kid yourself DB. They can blow off stands as well. We had two blown clean off the stand at the association apiary after a storm in May a couple of years ago.
> They are solid stands as well.
> 
> Minnowburn queen rearing1.jpg prime genetic material.jpg


I'm not trying to mislead myself or anyone else. Of course hives will blow off stands, unless they are loaded down with concrete blocks.
What I said was; if a hive is positioned on a stand with splayed, not upright legs, it's stability will be substantially increased. But as always others must use what they deem to be most appropiate for their individual situations. Believe me the mathematical proof is tedious and boring, think for a start .......when a lever is balanced ........... fulcrum ....................principle of moments.

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## Mellifera Crofter

> Hive stands also help to prevent hives being toppled by the wind in areas of severe exposure ... There is a caveat, the legs of the stand need to splay outwards in the ratio of approx. 1:4. If the legs are vertical, the problem will be exacerbated.


And there I was wanting to lower my hives as a precaution against wind - but then, I'm not that scared of them being blown over.  The stands have cross bars at the bottom that I weigh down, then I strap the hives to the stands.  I'm more worried about freeze-dried bees.  Do you have solid floors, DB?




> Alternatively get the hives on wooden stands and use grease bands on the legs?


Searching for advice about grease bands led me to this site with lots of ideas.
Kitta

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## Dark Bee

> ..................................................  .....  Do you have solid floors, DB?.
> Kitta


I find omf's a receipe for disaster in the wintertime - I leave the tray in place, enough draught gets around the edges to keep the floor area dry and moisture which would ordinarily collect on the floor gets drained harmlessly away. In the spring time the bees are spread over the brood combs, but with an omf they are usually up against the quilt.
I appreciate that in other areas experiences may be quite different - what have you found in your apiary?

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## Mellifera Crofter

> ... what have you found in your apiary?


I haven't noticed how bees behave with, or without, omf on my hill, DB, because, apart from my first year or two as a beekeeper, I now just keep the varroa trays in over winter with a few holes drilled in them (and I even worry about those holes as well).  But what I have seen is how fierce the wind can be up here.  It can force its way into areas where I would have thought it impossible - so what chance to the bees have with a big huge open floor underneath them.  I lost only one hive out of eleven this winter - maybe keeping the varroa trays in helped them.

Kitta

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## Bumble

Thanks for the ideas.

They are either leopard or tiger slugs. They are revolting and repulsive, and would be harmless if it wasn't for the amount of slime they produce. It's making the frames wet.

We've always had a problem with slugs inthe garden. There's always a heavy dew after even the hottest day, so slugs and snails will happily slither across broken eggshells, sand, coffee grinds and wood ash on their way to a meal. I think they eat vaseline for breakfast.

This hive is on a wooden stand, made of roughsawn timber. None of the others, including the adjacent hive which is sitting on a couple of plastic bread trays, are affected so maybe it's something about the colony or the hive itself that's attracting them. I have no idea what it could be because they're all swienty poly and the bees are local mongrels.

Unless slugs can shred themselves to pass through the varroa mesh they have to be getting in through the entrance. I've bought a strip of copper that's meant to protect flowerpots. I'm going to nail it right round the floor, in an unbroken band, to see if it works.

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## Jon

Found a great Doberman(n) avatar

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## Dark Bee

> ..................................................  ........... It can force its way into areas where I would have thought it impossible - so what chance to the bees have with a big huge open floor underneath them.  I lost only one hive out of eleven this winter - maybe keeping the varroa trays in helped them.
> 
> Kitta


My thoughts entirely Kitta, the wind may be cold and it may be violent, but it will reduce dampness which I believe is a major contributory factor in the demise or poor performance of bees in some areas / locations, for instance in woods. Heating a first floor room which has the floor removed and the ground floor open to the elements is obviously going to be difficult to anyone with common sense.

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## chris

> - maybe keeping the varroa trays in helped them.
> Kitta


Kitta, I changed to omf's when I had chalkbrood problems and was trying to clear things up. Omf, tray out, plus overhead insulation means dry combs and so supposedly healthier bees. The downside is greater honey/candy consommation, with the risk of starvation without constant intervention, and a slower spring build up.
I have now come back to solid wooden floors. I think there is a balance between dryness and warmth that has to be found, and this obviously varies according to the very local climate of the apiary.I don't believe there is any hard and fast rule. I have drilled 2 holes at the back of the floor of 5 cm. diameter, and covered these with wire mesh. For my position, this gives a good balance. And, of course,I don't need the omf for varroa control.

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