# General beekeeping > Starting out >  no brood or eggs

## andy

hi everyone, had a very quick first look inside my hives today as sunny and 9degrees
bees very active flying and bringing in pollen ,5-6 frames of bees in
each hive lots of stores but almost no brood and couldnt see any
eggs, saw queen in one hive , all look very well, is it just too early 
and too cold or has something gone wrong, any thoughts gladly received.
Thanks

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## Neils

Right now I would be inclined to blame the weather with the caveat that it's very difficult to say with any certainty at this time.  

My own hives are a very mixed bag at the moment, the ones I expected to be doing OK are doing just that and the ones I expected to struggle by either going into winter as very small colonies and/or not having a well mated queen in the sad excuse of a summer last year looking like they are struggling.

That you report 5-6 frames of bees does suggest to me that the lack of eggs/brood in any quantity might be more a reflection of the relatively mild weather going very cold over the last month or so. I've not yet managed to look into any of mine, but at the moment I'd be surprised to find brood in any great quantity in any of the colonies.  While they all still have fondant, I'm not seeing much outside the hives, in addition to the temperature, to encourage colonies to lay in any great quantity at the moment.

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## gavin

Hi Andy

Haven't a clue what's going on in mine as I don't lift any frames until it is about 15C.  Actually I do know there's a little brood rearing from looking at the floor insert under the open mesh floor.

There ought to be a little brood by now, but there's nothing you can do anyway so why risk the colony by looking in now?  They may yet come right, you never know.

In this weather I may very rarely gently,  carefully and briefly lift the crown board to see the state of the stores in the colonies living off frames on stores. Those with fondant just get the roof lifted briefly.

G.

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## Bumble

> In this weather I may very rarely gently,  carefully and briefly lift the crown board to see the state of the stores in the colonies living off frames on stores. Those with fondant just get the roof lifted briefly.


There are advantages in having a polycarbonate or glass corwn board.

Out of interest, do many people use them (or glass) throughout the year with wooden hives? If so, is condensation an issue, or is that another myth.

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## fatshark

Myth.

Most of mine have polycarbonate crownboards with insulation on top. Many have no holes, simply a single sheet. All have insulation on top, usually a block of Kingspan. None have condensation ... other than the Paynes nucs which have a hopelessly thin roof.

This winter I've built some 'reversible' polycarbonate crown boards with a deep lip on one side. Used deep side up, so to speak, the space is filled with insulation. When inverted there's space for about 4-6kg of fondant and the insulation goes on top. No condensation issues either way up.

Other than the poly nucs all my hives are wood.

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## The Drone Ranger

> There are advantages in having a polycarbonate or glass corwn board.
> 
> Out of interest, do many people use them (or glass) throughout the year with wooden hives? If so, is condensation an issue, or is that another myth.


You do get condensation with glass I even get it on the inside of the car windscreen.

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## Bridget

I did get condensation with mine until I added a load of insulation on top and now no condensation.  I think there is a basic science lesson in there somewhere.

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## Poly Hive

Yup the insulation is telling you something.  :Smile: 

No eggs or brood... well there's a surprise. It's still winter yet, so that is pretty much what I would expect to see. 

Patience. 

PH

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## The Drone Ranger

E P Jeffree studied colony size in Winter 1958
This was the Aberdeen Area and they were researching the effects of nosema

What they found was there could be brood in the hive at any time during the Winter
This wasn't confined to any particular months and wouldn't be replicated in other hives

Which just means there can be some brood in any given hive in any Winter month.
I take his word for it without opening hives in snow etc  :Smile:  

So a very useful observation by you andy 
I wouldn't worry if there was no eggs everything is most likely fine.

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## susbees

> I did get condensation with mine until I added a load of insulation on top and now no condensation.  I think there is a basic science lesson in there somewhere.


Indeed, exactly so. Too early to be digging about in colonies yet awhile.

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## Easy beesy

Hi Andy

If you update you profile we could maybe offer better (targeted) advice?

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## Dark Bee

[QUOTE=The Drone Ranger;16541]E P Jeffree studied colony size in Winter 1958..............................................  ..............
What they found was there could be brood in the hive at any time during the Winter............................................  .........

I can recall reading this or similar research which had the same findings - cannot recall where. But about fifteen years ago, I encountered a herd of bullocks who had in the interests of science, carried out their own research in an apiary. They were very thorough and investigated every hive, there were about fourteen in the apiary. Undaunted by it being Christmas week and the four inches of snow on the ground, all frames were laid out for inspection and definitely several contained brood. For the record about one third of the hives survived - AMM is tough :Smile:

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## Jon

The curious bullock - an occupational hazard.
These ones covered my mate's car in slaver while we were unloading hives at the apiary.

unloading-hives2.jpg

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## Dark Bee

> The curious bullock - an occupational hazard.
> These ones covered my mate's car in slaver while we were unloading hives at the apiary.
> 
> unloading-hives2.jpg


"clean yer windscreen mister"

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## gavin

> "clean yer windscreen mister"


For a fiver? Last time I heard that I was parked near one of the big Glasgow football grounds on a Saturday. 'Watching' it was part of the deal.

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## Jon

You need to be careful even setting a hive down for a minute while you are getting another out of the car as they will knock it over out of sheer curiosity or perhaps sheer stupidity.
Bullocks are strange creatures and can appear to be running at you and running away from you simultaneously in a kind of two steps forward one step back kind of gait.
They associate humans with food in a similar way to dogs and tag along hoping for a tasty morsel of some sort.
When I was demonstrating stuff in the group over the summer the front two rows would be composed of beekeepers and the next row just the other side of the fence was bullocks lined up to pick up tips about queen rearing while slavering over the back of the beekeepers.
One day I tied the dog to a gate on a short lead about 100 yards from the apiary and while I was working with the bees about a dozen bullocks went over and stared at the hapless animal from about a foot away like they had never seen a dog before and completely freaked her out.

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## fatshark

Bullocks ... bollocks. They're a nightmare when you're fly fishing. They sneak up en masse and then you inadvertently hook one in the flank on a backcast. Tricky. Or they crowd you, stamping and drooling (them, not me), almost always next to a "just too deep to cross in these waders" pool. 

The first situation is laughable, the second can be worrying ... and wet.

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## Jon

> They're a nightmare when you're fly fishing. They sneak up en masse and then you inadvertently hook one in the flank on a backcast.


If you use a bullock as bait you must be expecting a hell of a catch.

Looks like the forum is crying out for a sub category for bullock anecdotes or maybe there is a bullock forum we can sign up to as a sideline.

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## Dark Bee

Foul hooking a bullock - waste of time. You would never get away with taking it home, you are bound to be seen. A stroke haul in the back fin of a salmon is quite another matter, ask our Scottish brethern. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Trog

Well, since we're into fishing with cows for company, I could mention the time I was fishing a loch - in waders rather than in a boat - and a handful of highland cattle came down to the beach to investigate my fishing bag ... and my picnic lunch!

Or the time on the same loch - in a boat this time - during the rut.  We were fishing late for sea trout and this stag decided to challenge us.  My friend assured me the stag was unlikely to swim out to the boat ... was more worrying in the dusk as we couldn't see the beast, just hear it nearby ..

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## Poly Hive

Both Jeffree and Mobus did winter research though the two were with different aims. Jeffrees wanted to explore the optimum size of winter colony and found that bigger is not best oddly. Mobus wanted to explore water and brooding in Winter and his research first printed in the ABJ is on my website here: http://poly-hive.co.uk/damp-condensa...inter-cluster/

PH

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## The Drone Ranger

Thanks for the link PH I hadn't read The B. Mobus article before

Clipped this little quote from B. Mobus paper 

"The tables show that some brood could be found in some colonies during any of the winter months; even November and December were not without such activity"

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