# General beekeeping > Native honeybees >  Urgently looking for source of pure Amm for remote disease free island

## Neonach

Please respond if you can supply July/August 2011 a minimum of two nucs of Amm from stocks certified free of disease, to help scale-up potentially very significant Amm population in disease-free part of Hebrides. More required in 2012 and probably also in following years.  If you can't, but you know who can, please help get me in contact. Thanks!

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## Jon

Andrew Abrahams on Colonsay has AMM queens.

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## Neonach

> Andrew Abrahams on Colonsay has AMM queens.


That's where what I have already came from. I have had two nucs on order for more than a year but he's so busy with orders for queens and nucs that I don't know whether I'm going to get them. Next year could prove too late. In any event I really need to try and find other sources in order to ensure a measure of genetic diversity. I'm prepared to risk ending up with two orders fulfilled.

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## The Drone Ranger

http://www.bees.me.uk/Bees/Buy_queens.html

Don't know anything about this chap but it might be worth making a few enquiries

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## Trog

How about the Isle of Man?  AMM bees and no varroa.  We may be able to help you out eventually from Mull but along with AMMs there are other bees here.  You may well get your order from Colonsay.  Ours turned up in the end (last week)!

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## The Drone Ranger

Oh Yeh I forgot about the disease free bit 

Oh and the not moving bees around bit 

Best just get the semen then I hear it stores quite well

Presuming the AI kit won't be a problem

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## Jon

DR
I think they guy in Sussex got his queens from Andrew on Colonsay as well.
He sells his queens for about 80 quid or something like that.

Trog.
The Isle of man bees are a pretty mixed bunch apparently. Roger Patterson, Doris Fischler and some of the bibba crowd were over there doing morphometry on the bees a couple of years ago. Some of the bees were very bad tempered.

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## The Drone Ranger

> DR
> I think they guy in Sussex got his queens from Andrew on Colonsay as well.
> He sells his queens for about 80 quid or something like that.
> 
> Trog.
> The Isle of man bees are a pretty mixed bunch apparently. Roger Patterson, Doris Fischler and some of the bibba crowd were over there doing morphometry on the bees a couple of years ago. Some of the bees were very bad tempered.


LOL!
You would be bad tempered if you got stuck in a freezer for 24 hours and had bits snipped off

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## Trog

I've found that temper varies according to weather and hive politics at the time.  Two years ago, the ones we call the 'could bees' had to be treated with great respect and there was no way we'd breed from them.  I informed them of this and overnight they changed into really very nice bees.  Reluctant to make swarm preparations, even when crowded (so it was late in the year before they did actually get split) and 70lb honey (which is exceptional for us here).   This year, the 'could nuc' from last year currently has double brood box, 13 frames stuffed with brood and three supers and they're as sweet natured as anyone could wish.  On past form, if they produce any qcs at all it'll be in August, which is a bit late but we may well give them a chance to make up a nuc as they're so productive.

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## gavin

> That's where what I have already came from. I have had two nucs on order for more than a year but he's so busy with orders for queens and nucs that I don't know whether I'm going to get them. Next year could prove too late. In any event I really need to try and find other sources in order to ensure a measure of genetic diversity. I'm prepared to risk ending up with two orders fulfilled.


Jonathan, can I suggest that a good way to retain the genetic diversity that you have in the ones you already have is to raise as many queens as you can from your initial ones.  Each mated queen will come with a range of sperm in her spermatheca, and if you raise many queens from each original one you will retain that diversity.  On the other hand if you take two colonies to two daughter colonies over a few generations your population will be in trouble quickly.  There is a thread called 'Yet another puzzle' which will give you some background.

It sounds like you want to build up to a medium-sized self-sustaining population.  That is the way I would do it, definitely bring in more (very) carefully selected stock as even Andrew's genetic base may be less than ideal, but also go from a small number of queens to a larger number in one generation, before inbreeding takes effect.

If Amm is your thing then Manx and other larger island stocks are not necessarily pure.

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## The Drone Ranger

> I've found that temper varies according to weather and hive politics at the time.  Two years ago, the ones we call the 'could bees' had to be treated with great respect and there was no way we'd breed from them.  I informed them of this and overnight they changed into really very nice bees.  Reluctant to make swarm preparations, even when crowded (so it was late in the year before they did actually get split) and 70lb honey (which is exceptional for us here).   This year, the 'could nuc' from last year currently has double brood box, 13 frames stuffed with brood and three supers and they're as sweet natured as anyone could wish.  On past form, if they produce any qcs at all it'll be in August, which is a bit late but we may well give them a chance to make up a nuc as they're so productive.


Sounds like the jackpot best watch she doesn't fly off with a swarm when your not looking

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## Trog

Oh, we're looking all right, Droney!  Every seven days, which is hard work when one is also trying to run a B & B.  (Puts the guests off if you greet them while wearing a bee jacket.  Can't think why  :Big Grin: )

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## The Drone Ranger

> Oh, we're looking all right, Droney!  Every seven days, which is hard work when one is also trying to run a B & B.  (Puts the guests off if you greet them while wearing a bee jacket.  Can't think why )


Stick an ad in Beecraft for beginners beekeeping holidays that should fix both problems at the same time  :Smile: 

Mudbloods rule ok!

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## Trog

I have been thinking about doing 'meet the bees' courses - would be a good addition to painting holidays - but wonder what the insurance situation might be.  Currently covered as a hobby beekeeper by SBA membership but it almost certainly wouldn't cover me for opening up hives for paying guests.  Then I'd have to buy lots of extra kit ...

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## Jimbo

Ask Charlie Irwin The SBA Insurance convener for advice

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## gavin

Thornes do an 'occasional' jacket and veil for about £8.40.  We bought ten for beginners and they are fine although folk usually prefer the stronger stuff from a previous purchase.

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