# General beekeeping > Everything and anything >  Paradise beebox hive

## gwizzie

Hi Guys,
just got my second Paradise beebox hive for my birthday last week as I new I was getting some more bees from a lady from one of the clubs I am a member of. Anyway not sure if anyone else has them or tried them ??.  I will keep you posted on any developments.
The first one that I got I bought the feeder for it and well was not impressed as a lot of dead bees in the feeder, I put some plastic grilling in it that I had to help the bees climb back up this did help but still getting some dead bees ;-( .

I decided to remove this and the new one from the hives and made a board to go in the inside of the supper so that I could use a rapid 4 pint feeder that I had used on my other hive with NO dead bees. As you can see in this video, the queen was marked but on installing the bees noticed that the attendants had removed most of it and she only had a few speck on here, while I had the chance I remarked her with Yellow my colour for this year (odd year number and White for even year)

Anyway thanks for watching and click the like button if you like it thanks :Wink:

----------


## Adam

The way you have to jam the top bars in the hive indicates that the spacing is wrong. There should be 17 - 1/8 inch across the hive to accommodate the 17" top bars and give you some slop. You will also find that the space (or lack of it) under the end of the top bars is excellent for crushing bees - there's no thin runner for the top bars to sit on. I too cut out a plywood sheet on which to place a feeder inside a super. I also have a special queen excluder as the dimensions are wrong on the hive and a standard one doesn't fit. There are no castellations available for supers either. And if you put one brood box on top of another, bees get crushed as the bee space is too small. And the entrance sheet that drops in is - weird. I have one of these that is used as an emergency hive. I would not buy another. having said all the above, bees do well in them!

----------


## gwizzie

> The way you have to jam the top bars in the hive indicates that the spacing is wrong. There should be 17 - 1/8 inch across the hive to accommodate the 17" top bars and give you some slop. You will also find that the space (or lack of it) under the end of the top bars is excellent for crushing bees - there's no thin runner for the top bars to sit on. I too cut out a plywood sheet on which to place a feeder inside a super. I also have a special queen excluder as the dimensions are wrong on the hive and a standard one doesn't fit. There are no castellations available for supers either. And if you put one brood box on top of another, bees get crushed as the bee space is too small. And the entrance sheet that drops in is - weird. I have one of these that is used as an emergency hive. I would not buy another. having said all the above, bees do well in them!


Hi Adam,

thanks for your comments, this is my second one of these hives and I don't have any problems with the frames not fitting on the 1st hive, the reason for me having to jam the frames in as you say was because of proplus which was so built up on each end of the frames. As far as I can see and have been made aware of is that there is NO bee space under the frames it is on top of the frames like in the commercial hives. 
The queen excluder that I have fits ok no problems there as it does not have a frame around it. The entrance gate as I call it is ok and I like it, as do other at my local club as it is easy to make what size you want! just slid it open or remove it if you want to have it open totally (but it does have sharp edges).

I do like them so far the only thing I don't like is the feeder that you can buy for them,, to many bees getting killed in it but I will be using them later, as going to cut a hole in the bottom for a rapid feeder and also use it for feeding fondant in the winter time. 

As you have said bees do very well in them.

----------


## Adam

My comment about the bee space is that space between the top bars and the plastic extrusion. There is no space. Most hives have a plastic or steel frame runner the frame sits on so the possibility of crushing bees is minimised.

Your entrance thingy (gate) is different to mine - so maybe mine is an early one.

For queen excluders, they need to have rounded corners and are (slightly) smaller than the usual. Maybe I have an early hive and things have changed but I did hear that the first excluders they sold were cut down ones to make them fit. With all these things, you tend to like what you get used to and learn to live with any imperfections. (That's what SWIMBO tells me anyway)!

----------


## gwizzie

> My comment about the bee space is that space between the top bars and the plastic extrusion. There is no space. Most hives have a plastic or steel frame runner the frame sits on so the possibility of crushing bees is minimised.
> 
> Your entrance thingy (gate) is different to mine - so maybe mine is an early one.
> 
> For queen excluders, they need to have rounded corners and are (slightly) smaller than the usual. Maybe I have an early hive and things have changed but I did hear that the first excluders they sold were cut down ones to make them fit. With all these things, you tend to like what you get used to and learn to live with any imperfections. (That's what SWIMBO tells me anyway)!


Hi Adam,

it does seem to be that you must have an earlier model of this hive, I have seen the entrance thingy that you refer to and yes there were older ones that went right across and fixed into the sides of the floor, Mine does not.

The queen excluder that I used in the video is standard one for national hive NO corners cut . As I am new to beekeeping I have done a lot of research into these ones and have spoken to others that are using them and they love them BUT as you correctly have said it is what you are used to and want to use... (some won't even use poly hives)

It is down to the individual what they want to use and are use to, but again thank you for you comments.  :Wink:

----------


## fatshark

I've got a couple of these boxes and only use them as bait hives these days. They're a good thickness and well made, just not to the correct dimensions in my view. Both of my broods and all the supers are too narrow. 

My experience after running a couple of colonies in these for a year was that they soon propolised up the frame ends so what started off tight ended up stuck fast. If you've not glued the boxes together you could consider prising them apart and putting a thin shim between the ends and the sides - about a matchstick thick I'd suggest - then filling in the gaps with some sort of gap filler (OK, that last part wasn't too helpful - just not something solvent based). What's a minor inconvenience now will become really annoying once the box is boiling with bees.

They may have changed the QE … mine is square, but it is smaller in area than a standard QE. 

If you choose to work with cedar or Swienty poly's as well you'll need a shim to mix'n'match the supers - the photo below shows me uniting a swarm that arrived in the MB/Paradise dual super bait hive with a wooden one.

20150711-16-2.jpg 20150711-16.jpg

Note - just re-read this after posting and realise it's a bit negative. You're absolutely right Graham, you should use what you're happy using. They are nicely made, strong, well insulated boxes. The bees will do just fine in them. I simply couldn't get on with them because of the width being too narrow … they make great bait hives  :Wink:

----------


## gwizzie

Hey Fatshark,

thanks for the input and the pic's. I have glued mine and I really don't see any problem with them (at the moment) but you never know. The brood box holds 10 frames and a spacer board and my cedar hive holds 11 frames and its tight so losing one frame does not bother me at this time.

LOL yes I suppose it was a bit neg but don't worry about it I dont take these things personal  :Smile:  life is too short and everyone is NOT the same!!!!

As for being too narrow!   the only evidence of that to me was today when I went to take frames out of a poly nuke to then go into this hive only then did I notice this but this was as far as I could see was due to the other hive NOT the beebox.... BUT I will keep you posted on any events that arise in mine.

Only time will tell  :Big Grin:

----------


## gwizzie

These guys don't seem to have any problems with these hives  :Smile: 

apart from getting stung  :Big Grin:

----------


## mbc

I bought one to try and also noticed the tightness,  biggest down side for me though is the impossibility of avoiding squashing loads of bees. I thought despite these down sides the bees did well and so I've now bought some swienty national poly's which are nice and simple.  The swienty poly feeder when given a rim for bee space is by far the best feeder I've come across.

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

Well, gwizzie - you have been warned!  Before you invest in any more MB Nationals, go and have a look at somebody using those hives with large, long-established colonies in them.  The tight fit of the frames, and the lack of beespace underneath the lugs create a huge problem for manipulating the bees.  I've just come back from my bees cursing and swearing at MB Nationals.  To quote Grizzly on MBs, "They're not fit for purpose."

It's a shame, because they're strong and well-made - but the design is poor.  Their only good points are that they're easy to close the bees in, and easy to move safely - that's all.

As MBC, I'm trying to change over to Swienties (but I've reduced the lugs by two millimeters - so now the Swienties are ideal).

Have a look at the thread 'Polyhive Musings'.

Kitta

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

> These guys don't seem to have any problems with these hives


Gwizzie

Firstly, they're using Langstroths.  The lug rests are slightly better than those of the Nationals.

Secondly, I've only watched a bit of the video, but I don't think those people care one iota about squashing bees.

Kitta

----------


## gwizzie

> Well, gwizzie - you have been warned!  Before you invest in any more MB Nationals, go and have a look at somebody using those hives with large, long-established colonies in them.  The tight fit of the frames, and the lack of beespace underneath the lugs create a huge problem for manipulating the bees.  I've just come back from my bees cursing and swearing at MB Nationals.  To quote Grizzly on MBs, "They're not fit for purpose."
> 
> It's a shame, because they're strong and well-made - but the design is poor.  Their only good points are that they're easy to close the bees in, and easy to move safely - that's all.
> 
> As MBC, I'm trying to change over to Swienties (but I've reduced the lugs by two millimeters - so now the Swienties are ideal).
> 
> Have a look at the thread 'Polyhive Musings'.
> 
> Kitta


Hi Kitta,

thanks for your input and comments, which I will take on board. As I have said I have 2 of these and looked at other hives (polly) I will see how I get on with these but had not noticed that the frames in my other hive were tight, I see where others are coming from about the bee space under the lugs, I have been on a few visits to a members apiary that uses hives the same as this with bee space above the frames and did find that I was or anyone else (newbies) were squashing any bees.

As I have said these are the newer design and time will tell, I can only hope that they will be ok for me, so far I like them and how they go together.... I have squashed more bees with the wooden hives than these...

Thanks for the pointer *Polyhive Musings* did a forum search but nothing but then found it in google http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/sh...y-hive-musings will be bed time reading for me tonight  :Big Grin:

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

> Hi Kitta,
> 
> ... I see where others are coming from about the bee space under the lugs, I have been on a few visits to a members apiary that uses hives the same as this with bee space above the frames and did find that I was or anyone else (newbies) were squashing any bees.
> 
> As I have said these are the newer design ...


Yes, it's the space under the lugs that's the problem - not the space above the lugs and the frames.

Did they change the lug rests in the new design?  I wasn't aware that they had a new design.

Kitta

----------


## gwizzie

> Yes, it's the space under the lugs that's the problem - not the space above the lugs and the frames.
> 
> Did they change the lug rests in the new design?  I wasn't aware that they had a new design.
> 
> Kitta


Hi Kitta,

No there is no rest to give the bee space under the lug it sits flat. I will use these hives and see how I get on with them as I have said if it dont work for others it does not mean it won't work for me.

I do take onboard everyone's comments as I am new to this.

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

> Hi Kitta,
> 
> No there is no rest to give the bee space under the lug it sits flat.  ...


Yes, Gwizzie - that's what we're saying, and that's the problem - of one of the problems. The other is the tight fit.
Kitta

----------


## gwizzie

> Yes, Gwizzie - that's what we're saying, and that's the problem - of one of the problems. The other is the tight fit.
> Kitta


Hi Kitta,

its not a problem for me at this time as I have said I have worked on hives like this and not squashed bees!!! I have not came across the tight fit part until today and that was because of propolis build up on frames from another hive! if you watch the video you will see me take out one of the new frames with no effort or hive tool used (8 min 20 sec in the video) and this is the same on my other hive so I can't agree with the statement of there tight as I have not came across this.

I will gladly keep you all updated on my progress with this hive and any problem that I come across  :Wink:

----------


## prakel

> No there is no rest to give the bee space under the lug it sits flat. I will use these hives and see how I get on with them as I have said if it dont work for others it does not mean it won't work for me.


I'd assume that if this is all you know then it won't be a problem. For what it's worth, we make our own boxes to take BS frames without a lug rest, so basically the same design in that respect as far as I can tell. Far prefer it to having silly little wells full of propolis behind frame 'rests'. May even prove beneficial (one less hiding place) if the beetles get here.

edit: it wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that this is by far the most common way of dealing with frame rests worldwide.

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

Prakel, it's the combination of no lug rests and a very tight fit that make the MB Nationals so difficult to handle. The old-style Swienties don't have lug rests either. I don't like that, but there is wiggle room. With the MBs you have to force the frames in place at exactly the right place.  

Those wells of propolis are the bees' medicine cabinets!

Kitta

----------


## prakel

> Prakel, it's the combination of no lug rests and a very tight fit that make the MB Nationals so difficult to handle. The old-style Swienties don't have lug rests either. I don't like that, but there is wiggle room. With the MBs you have to force the frames in place at exactly the right place.  
> 
> Those wells of propolis are the bees' medicine cabinets!
> 
> Kitta


Can't comment on the tight fit having not used those boxes -designing anything not to be inter-changeable with other kit is a major flaw as far as I'm concerned. I never quite understood why mb/paradise didn't develope a BS box to fit their existing langstroth hive. Maybe it was impossible to do but I'd have thought that there would have been a way around it. 

On the propolis front, I doubt that having masses of heavy 'in-fill' going hard and stale is of great importance to their health but it may be.

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

> ... designing anything not to be inter-changeable with other kit is a major flaw as far as I'm concerned.  ...


Oh yes, there's that too! They don't fit with any other box at all.  Those plastic rim enforcements create openings between whatever other box you're using and the MB box.
Kitta

----------


## The Drone Ranger

Smith Hive is the one Lol ! 

I put short lug smith frames in Paynes poly nucs no worries but when I use the full length national lugs I have to watch who is wandering around underneath.
As for the thin plastic crown board, putting that on with one hand should be an Olympic sport  :Smile:

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

Perhaps that what one should do with the MB Nationals: use Smith frames instead. 
Kitta

Ps: sorry DR, I should have said, 'Excellent idea' - because that is what you're suggesting! Kitta

----------


## gavin

> As for the thin plastic crown board, putting that on with one hand should be an Olympic sport


In a box boiling with bees, using that flapping motion to persuade bees in the way to run away without letting any more under ....  :EEK!:

----------


## gwizzie

Hum I feel that there is a lot of I don't like because, in this thread. (I do appreciate everyone's comments) as far as I can see there is no perfect hive as someone does not like a hive some reason or another, but again that's life in general (I don't like the TAX man) but I have to pay him  :Big Grin: 

I have chosen these hives as I like them so far, I know that I am new to this and will prob learn the hard way or not ?

Just because it's not interchangable with other hive does not mean that I can't use them effectively, or does it ? (as I only have 2 other wooden hives) so it not something that I will lose any sleep over.

The fact is I have NOT come across frames that I have to push in YET apart from yesterday !!!! (and that was because there was *TOO* big a gap between the frame ends and the side's of the nuke box)

ALL my other frames fit ok NO jamming or tight fit. (I maybe lucky) who knows.

----------


## The Drone Ranger

That's probably worth a try Kitta

----------


## The Drone Ranger

> In a box boiling with bees, using that flapping motion to persuade bees in the way to run away without letting any more under ....


It always seems to bend and fall in at one edge or something 
Weather not good for beekeeping at the moment Gavin especially the queen rearing
Sun on way this afternoon though  :Smile:

----------


## The Drone Ranger

> Hum I feel that there is a lot of I don't like because, in this thread..


Some bees like a bit more propolis and that means when things are tight it becomes very hard to get them out
Many are even tempered till you bump or spring something with the hive tool so you don't want things tight 
As boxes get older the general build up makes things worse

gwizzie I suppose a lot depends on the bees in the box as well as the box itself

One issue though is that we tend to stick with what we start with 
In my case Smith Hives 
That's not too much of a restriction but if you say choose Langstroth or something they will be great until you need a frame of eggs or something from a friend with nationals

Making a switch later is so expensive everyone will be trying to make sure you don't have to do that
I've never seen a Paradise hive by the way so can't comment

----------


## gavin

> It always seems to bend and fall in at one edge or something


Always is the word.  I had to smile at your words.  You'd imagine laying on a sheet of thin perspex or acrylic would be a simple matter but it takes me several tries to get it right.  Maybe if it was a tad wider (with corners rounded to ensure the roof went on easily) it wouldn't fall in so often.  Hardly a big issue but I've got bees in more than 50 of them at the moment.

Yes, queen mating is slow.  Had quite a few failures earlier but now most seem to be finding short windows in the cool weather eventually.

----------


## The Drone Ranger

I set out six keilers 3 facing south with early sun  and 3 facing north with shade till afternoon.
They all have mated queens now but the ones facing South were always leading in building wax getting laying etc 
All queens are sisters all bees from same source.
Keilers are a bit bigger than apideas but this year I think a bit of sunshine rather than shade might help.
Are you using the mini plus or something else Gavin

----------


## gavin

Some of the MiniPluses are in use but most of my queens are in Paynes nucs at the moment, both splits and grafted queens.  Like yours, some are in the shade and some in the sun.  I don't think it matters much at least in terms of queen mating.  Some of the shady Paynes nucs have dead bees in (dry) feeders which are now going mouldy  :Frown: .  Time for a bit of box swapping and cleaning.   

With the weather the way it is we haven't yet done any stress-testing of the absconding risk from MPs up in the air in the sun.  All seems OK but the sample is small so far.

----------


## gwizzie

> Some bees like a bit more propolis and that means when things are tight it becomes very hard to get them out
> Many are even tempered till you bump or spring something with the hive tool so you don't want things tight 
> As boxes get older the general build up makes things worse
> 
> gwizzie I suppose a lot depends on the bees in the box as well as the box itself
> 
> One issue though is that we tend to stick with what we start with 
> In my case Smith Hives 
> That's not too much of a restriction but if you say choose Langstroth or something they will be great until you need a frame of eggs or something from a friend with nationals
> ...


Thanks Drone ranger,

I know and understand this.

the only other poly hive that I have considered is the Paynes National Hive
5029839063098.jpg

I am not sure if any member has any dealing with this make or not ? *PLEASE* let me know if you have any or have worked with them. :Wink: 
I know that the nukes are well liked apart from the feeder.

----------


## fatshark

A better crownboard for these hives is a simple sheet of polythene (clear if you want a view through it) or damp proof membrane. See one of the pictures I posted above. DPM is actually very good as propolis and wax don't appear to adhere to it particularly well. 

Of course, instead of "plastic crownboard replacement" being an Olympic sport you now have "fetch the polythene sheet from the other side of the field on a windy day". Which is why I leave a drawing pin in place to hold it down.

----------


## The Drone Ranger

I have one friend who swears by them (Paynes Nationals) but I'm not a fan.
I think to some extent its hobsons choice with the Paynes nuc.
But all power to their elbow they are improving them as the years go by

----------


## The Drone Ranger

you might have a solution there fatshark because it avoids the squashing of bees but not the cussing and swearing which we all enjoy
has anybody tried making the paynes crownboard a bit more rigid 
I have a gluegun  :Smile:

----------


## greengumbo

> Thanks Drone ranger,
> 
> I know and understand this.
> 
> the only other poly hive that I have considered is the Paynes National Hive
> 5029839063098.jpg
> 
> I am not sure if any member has any dealing with this make or not ? *PLEASE* let me know if you have any or have worked with them.
> I know that the nukes are well liked apart from the feeder.


Hi Gwizzie - I have experience of using the beebox but only Langstroth. I actually really like them. The colonies are by far my best and biggest. Not an issue these days but in the start if i needed a frame of eggs from a friend with a national or smith hive I strapped them to a lang top bar.

Mine get propolised up a fair bit but I just put up with it and swap and clean brood boxes at the end of the season. Plenty other beekeeping things to get worried about !

----------


## madasafish

I have used a Langstroth Paradise hive for 12 months. I prop the clear crownboard with a bit of wood  ( I use clear crownboards on my self made wooden langs).

Easy to use, 10 frames fit easily, I don't squash a lot of bees - smoke the edges..

I use jumbo brood boxes- far less handling required. Double brood is  the spawn of the devil- designed to knacker old backs..

Mine with two  (smallest) supers cost £29 delivered - (I won a £100 voucher from MB)

Only colony that did not catch AFB..

----------


## prakel

> Just because it's not interchangable with other hive does not mean that I can't use them effectively, or does it ? (as I only have 2 other wooden hives) so it not something that I will lose any sleep over.


Not at all, it was an explanation of why _I haven't_ used them not a reason why someone else _shouldn't_ use them.




> With the weather the way it is we haven't yet done any stress-testing of the absconding risk from MPs up in the air in the sun.  All seems OK but the sample is small so far.


I'll bet against absconding troubles with those boxes  :Smile: .

Now. Back to silent mode for prakel...

----------


## gwizzie

> Hi Gwizzie - I have experience of using the beebox but only Langstroth. I actually really like them. The colonies are by far my best and biggest. Not an issue these days but in the start if i needed a frame of eggs from a friend with a national or smith hive I strapped them to a lang top bar.
> 
> Mine get propolised up a fair bit but I just put up with it and swap and clean brood boxes at the end of the season. Plenty other beekeeping things to get worried about !


Hi greengumbo, many thanks for taking the time to reply  :Smile:  

How long have you had your ones ? and did you get the feeders for them ?

G.

----------


## gwizzie

> I have used a Langstroth Paradise hive for 12 months. I prop the clear crownboard with a bit of wood  ( I use clear crownboards on my self made wooden langs).
> 
> Easy to use, 10 frames fit easily, I don't squash a lot of bees - smoke the edges..
> 
> I use jumbo brood boxes- far less handling required. Double brood is  the spawn of the devil- designed to knacker old backs..
> 
> Mine with two  (smallest) supers cost £29 delivered - (I won a £100 voucher from MB)
> 
> Only colony that did not catch AFB..


Hi Madasafish,

thanks for the words of support in using the Paradise hives, I never got clear crown boards with mine ? I will need to ask my supplier why

As for squishing bees when working on a members hive with this design thats all he said to me smoke them and lower it slowly into place they will move!!!

(from MB) ???

----------


## drumgerry

Never worked with the MB/paradise boxes but it's a system that looks decent enough.  I know someone who uses them and they seem pretty happy with them - they haven't voiced any complaints about them within my hearing anyway.  But....I have no experience with them so I'll defer to those who actually do.

The full sized Paynes hives are a different matter  - those I do have experience of.  I bought 4 in one of their crimbo sales a few years back.  In use as long as you don't have to move them they're ok.  There's enough room at the end of the lugs, the bee space is ok.  But......the poly is a bit soft, the floor has a large landing board which sticks out and makes moving them a problem, the floor and BB have little corner lug things that interlock and are a pain (payne?) in  the ass, the roof is a tight fit, they have a bigger footprint than wooden kit so are not interchangeable although you can get away with using wooden supers if you switch the roof for a standard wooden one (I guess in theory you could still use the poly roof but it'd have a big overlap).  All that aside they're perfectly useable but I won't be buying any more.

If you're going down the poly route probably the best option are the Swienty hives.  They have the same footprint as wooden kit so you can mix and match no problem - this alone makes them the best option imho.  The floor is flush with no landing board.  There's enough room at the end of the lugs.  Bee space is good.  No frame runners but a bit of judicious smoke and some care will leave few casualties when replacing frames.

All of the aforementioned relates to Nationals btw. 

Having said all that I'm not convinced that poly gains you a whole helluva lot over wooden kit when we're talking about full sized colonies.  Nuc sized colonies are a different matter and I think the ubiquitous Paynes poly nuc is a superb bit of kit for those summer and winter.

Pretty sure I've said all of this before in the poly hive thread but hey ho!  :Smile:

----------


## gwizzie

> Never worked with the MB/paradise boxes but it's a system that looks decent enough.  I know someone who uses them and they seem pretty happy with them - they haven't voiced any complaints about them within my hearing anyway.  But....I have no experience with them so I'll defer to those who actually do.
> 
> The full sized Paynes hives are a different matter  - those I do have experience of.  I bought 4 in one of their crimbo sales a few years back.  In use as long as you don't have to move them they're ok.  There's enough room at the end of the lugs, the bee space is ok.  But......the poly is a bit soft, the floor has a large landing board which sticks out and makes moving them a problem, the floor and BB have little corner lug things that interlock and are a pain (payne?) in  the ass, the roof is a tight fit, they have a bigger footprint than wooden kit so are not interchangeable although you can get away with using wooden supers if you switch the roof for a standard wooden one (I guess in theory you could still use the poly roof but it'd have a big overlap).  All that aside they're perfectly useable but I won't be buying any more.
> 
> If you're going down the poly route probably the best option are the Swienty hives.  They have the same footprint as wooden kit so you can mix and match no problem - this alone makes them the best option imho.  The floor is flush with no landing board.  There's enough room at the end of the lugs.  Bee space is good.  No frame runners but a bit of judicious smoke and some care will leave few casualties when replacing frames.
> 
> All of the aforementioned relates to Nationals btw. 
> 
> Having said all that I'm not convinced that poly gains you a whole helluva lot over wooden kit when we're talking about full sized colonies.  Nuc sized colonies are a different matter and I think the ubiquitous Paynes poly nuc is a superb bit of kit for those summer and winter.
> ...


Hi drumgerry, 

thank you for your comments and insight into the Paynes hives, I think that hearing what you have said about them I will stay clear of them and stick with the beebox ones as for now as I have said in this thread I am very happy with them so far, just not happy with the feeder that you can get for them (losing too many bees)

I attended a local bee meeting tonight and the member had WBC hives and they were packed with propolis and she had bother getting the frames out, so im not that bothered about using the beebox ones, as I have come to the conclusion that if they're that bad the poly hive will have more give in it than a wooden one!    

I have got 2 paynes poly nucs and will be making the mod to remove the feeder and making them into 8 framed nucs, as I prefer using rapid feeders.

again thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread  :Smile:

----------


## The Drone Ranger

Graham  check paynes upper broodbox for the nuc you might like that extra space over the brood 

By the by
Smith cedar hives never need painting and the bees don't eat them when you shut them in for a day lol!

----------


## Emma

> A better crownboard for these hives is a simple sheet of polythene (clear if you want a view through it) or damp proof membrane. See one of the pictures I posted above. DPM is actually very good as propolis and wax don't appear to adhere to it particularly well. 
> 
> Of course, instead of "plastic crownboard replacement" being an Olympic sport you now have "fetch the polythene sheet from the other side of the field on a windy day". Which is why I leave a drawing pin in place to hold it down.


So are you just cutting a piece of polythene from a sturdy polythene bag? I've started tinkering with that as a solution this year, in a couple of the complicated situations I got myself into. Didn't think anyone else would be trying it, & as ever it's reassuring to know that someone else has. (Maybe I'm not a lone crazy bee lady, after all!) I'm really liking the way the plastic just floats down onto the bees. I can see them gradually getting out from under it while I get on with something else, it's much quicker to deal with than rigid (or bendy) perspex. However, last time I looked, only a couple of weeks after putting the sheets in, I did notice the edges of the plastic starting to get chewed. Do you find that that happens? 

(I guess it might not happen if the edges were safely sandwiched between the edges of the boxes - mine are half sheets, due to having a half-filled super, & the edges are accessible to tidy-minded mandibles.)

----------


## fatshark

Don't be reassured that I'm trying it as well … there's any number of things I've tried which have been unmitigated failures. However, polythene crownboards isn't one of them. I use pretty thick polythene, perhaps 0.5mm. As I said earlier, the stuff they wrap new sofas in and that ignorant so and so's dump in lay-by's. Damp proof membrane is perhaps slightly thicker but just as good. None of mine have been chewed. They overhang the box by a couple of cm or so and so the bees don't have access to the edges.  

They make short work of cling film, so I think even 'sturdy polythene bags' perhaps aren't robust enough to withstand their mandibles. 

Your description of 'floating down' onto the bees is perfect. It's light enough that they're not crushed, but heavy enough that they eventually move … by which time you're about ready to put the roof on.

----------


## gavin

I've been scouring Fife and Tayside lay-bys for cast-off sofa wrappings but no, the people around these parts are clearly more proud of their countryside than in Warwickshire  :Smile: .  My bees will happily shred that blue plastic the BFP fondant comes in if you leave it on too long in the spring.  It appears that they (the BFP workers, not the bees) just pour warm fondant into a plastic carrier bag in a cardboard box. 

There was one occasion recently when I was most impressed by a couple of workers hell-bent on chewing out some plastic that got in the way.  Rather than buzzing off when I lifted the box above them, they grabbed the opportunity and flew backwards with as much force as they could muster with the plastic firmly in their jaws.  The pieces were nearly off and the force of the bee was causing the fragment to rock backwards and forwards with the attached bee still in the air.

----------


## fatshark

There will be loads to be had in Fife lay-bys soon  :Wink: 
That BFP stuff is still pretty thin in comparison to DPM. Thicker stuff works well. I've used it as crownboards on mini-nucs for several seasons. When it gets too messy just chuck it out and start scouring lay-bys again.

----------


## gwizzie

well guys,

I have checked one of my other beebox hives today for frame space and the frames that I have used that are new are not sticking in the hive and there is some play from the edges and these frames have *NOT* been cut in anyway.

So I should not have any problems with frames sticking as I will eventually replace the frames that the splits came on with my own frames. :Wink:

----------


## gavin

> There will be loads to be had in Fife lay-bys soon


You buying new then?!

As for build-up on frame lugs, a well-aimed hive tool can deal with that.  On occasion I've even done that with bees on the frames when transferring from one old rickety wooden box to another.

----------


## fatshark

If there are no new sofas being bought then this stuff might do. 0.25mm thick … about 50 crownboards-worth for £17.

----------


## The Drone Ranger

If you have an agricultural merchant nearby who sell the black plastic potato sacks etc they also sell polythene for re-covering commercial poly tunnels
Its on huge rolls and they will cut a bit for you its very thick and durable

this stuff might be similar https://www.firsttunnels.co.uk/polythene-covers.asp

----------


## Emma

> Don't be reassured that I'm trying it as well … there's any number of things I've tried which have been unmitigated failures. However, polythene crownboards isn't one of them. I use pretty thick polythene, perhaps 0.5mm. As I said earlier, the stuff they wrap new sofas in and that ignorant so and so's dump in lay-by's. Damp proof membrane is perhaps slightly thicker but just as good. None of mine have been chewed. They overhang the box by a couple of cm or so and so the bees don't have access to the edges.  
> 
> They make short work of cling film, so I think even 'sturdy polythene bags' perhaps aren't robust enough to withstand their mandibles. 
> 
> Your description of 'floating down' onto the bees is perfect. It's light enough that they're not crushed, but heavy enough that they eventually move … by which time you're about ready to put the roof on.


I've been noticing the 'floating down' thing ever since I started using towels as cover cloths. Sometimes I put them on just to encourage the bees to go down & clear the top bars so I can replace a crownboard or box safely. But plastic sheeting crownboards would cut out an entire stage of that process. They might just possibly be the clear-crownboard solution I've been looking for. Especially as I live somewhere that's likely to have bits of old polytunnel plastic knocking around :-) 

The next thing I'll want to find out is whether plasticisers from polythene are likely to leach into propolis & wax. The latter are quite easy to harvest from clear crownboards, but I don't fancy chewing propolis mixed with plasticiser! Something to muse & google over in a less busy season, perhaps.

----------


## The Drone Ranger

My Paynes clear cover and lid were floating down 50 yards away till I gave up today.
Where is propolis when you need it

----------


## gwizzie

Well getting back on topic a bit, I thought it was me that was just having a few problems with the Beebox hive *feeder* with fatalities but I have now come across a video of someone saying the same thing but has an answer for the problem which I will try now again rather that butchering them for something else as they are a nice addon.

here is the video explaining the problem and how to get round it... 

Fast forward to 2 min 12sec




SO its off to the beach to get some sand!!!

This video is for the Paradise Honey Nuc&Mate which is langstroff but someone is getting one and said they can easily convert to national (we will see)

As I have said before I have now checked all my other hives and the frames that I am using (uncut) are fitting no problem and there is play either side  :Wink:

----------


## prakel

Calum recommended the paint/sand combination to me a couple of years ago when some of my mini-plus boxes got wreaked by rodents -applied to the outside of course; (not) good for woodpeckers too, he said.

I've got photos somewhere of a couple of wooden feeders both of which have had wax steps built onto them by the colonies-a lovely in-house solution! 

Another solution is to loosely fill the access area with wood shavings (the stuff they use for guinea pigs is ideal). The bees will work their way down through it right to the bottom without any fatalities.

----------


## gwizzie

> Calum recommended the paint/sand combination to me a couple of years ago when some of my mini-plus boxes got wreaked by rodents -applied to the outside of course; (not) good for woodpeckers too, he said.
> 
> I've got photos somewhere of a couple of wooden feeders both of which have had wax steps built onto them by the colonies-a lovely in-house solution! 
> 
> Another solution is to loosely fill the access area with wood shavings (the stuff they use for guinea pigs is ideal). The bees will work their way down through it right to the bottom without any fatalities.


Hi parkel, thanks for the reply. I am going to be repainting them and adding course sand to the newly painted slope then recoating again when dry, humm never thought of the wood shavings might be a tad difficult due to the design of the cover ? but will deff think of this if the sand mod dont work  :Wink: 

would be nice to see the pics if you ever come across them  :Smile:

----------


## prakel

> wood shavings might be a tad difficult due to the design of the cover ? but will deff think of this if the sand mod dont work


Good point (just looked again at your video link). Straw will do as well and may be a little easier to stuff into those covers as they're lowered. That said, your paint/sand solution will work anyway.

I'll search out the photos...

----------


## fatshark

> This video is for the Paradise Honey Nuc&Mate which is langstroff but someone is getting one and said they can easily convert to national (we will see)


I've got half a dozen of those and have converted them all to take National frames … as have several others on here. They were in the sales one year at £sillymoney and a few of us splashed out  :Wink:

----------


## gwizzie

> Good point (just looked again at your video link). Straw will do as well and may be a little easier to stuff into those covers as they're lowered. That said, your paint/sand solution will work anyway.
> 
> I'll search out the photos...


Thanks will try that if sand does not work that well, but I am confident it will fix my problem. I look forward to seeing them  :Smile:

----------


## gwizzie

> I've got half a dozen of those and have converted them all to take National frames … as have several others on here. They were in the sales one year at £sillymoney and a few of us splashed out


Hi fatshark, would be interested to know what you did to convert them and any pictures you have on what they look like would be great  :Wink:

----------


## fatshark

Here you go

----------


## drumgerry

Is that your website Fatshark?  It's one I've visited a fair few times!

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

Ah, Fatshark - I've long suspected you're the author of that excellent site (The Apiarist)  and now I know for sure! 
Kitta

----------


## gwizzie

> Here you go


Hi Fs, thanks AGAIN for the link  :Smile:  very helpful.

----------


## busybeephilip

> Here you go


Thats an interesting looking vaporizor, can you tell us more about it?

----------


## fatshark

A bit frantically busy at the moment (moving house)  it's a Sublimox. Recommended to me by a couple of trusted commercials as being the dogs bits. Purchased from Icko. Blisteringly fast to treat (30-45s/colony) and very well tolerated by the bees. Unlike the Varrox-type it 'blows' the OA forcefully through the hive - top, bottom, side  all it needs is a 6-8mm hole into the box. I've not measured efficacy, but have no reason not to think it's at least as good as any other. I've only been using it a few months. There was a discussion on the the BKF with contributors who have much more experience, including a schedule to use it with sealed brood present from Hivemaker.

----------


## robin118

I use the langstroth bee box it will be quicker to list the things I like about them rather than the things i dont. so Here goes

1 The density of the poly
2 The thickness of the walls 
3 The thickness of the roof
4 The poly
I am currently changing back to nationals and have a couple of swienty poly hives and think they are great. As for the crown board I use rubble sacks.

----------


## gwizzie

> I use the langstroth bee box it will be quicker to list the things I like about them rather than the things i dont. so Here goes
> 
> 1 The density of the poly
> 2 The thickness of the walls 
> 3 The thickness of the roof
> 4 The poly
> I am currently changing back to nationals and have a couple of swienty poly hives and think they are great. As for the crown board I use rubble sacks.


Hi Robin thanks for your comments, 
I have 2 and one more on the way to me today. I am using nationals and I really like them so far, the only issue I have had with them so far is the full size feeder in that the inside walls were very slippy after I had painted them but I know have rectified this now I think by repainting the slope and adding sand and then repainting it again.

----------


## Adam

I've got a Paynes National too. I echo the comments made. Poly too soft; bees have chewed though it in a couple of places and if you try to lift/lever off two heavy supers that are stuck down, the hive tool just digs in. I dropped an extracted super and it broke in two. Bee spaces are good though. Takes castellations for the supers which the MB/Paradise hive doesn't. The hand-holds are rubbish, so it's difficult to lift 2 supers off at once. The parts do mix well enough with wooden nationals, but they are big so storage is a pain when not used. Always squash bees when putting boxes back together. I am wondering about retiring my one and perhaps selling it. Bees do well in it but it's an odd-ball hive for me. A wooden national is just more enjoyable to use and a cedar one never needs painting.

----------


## Adam

> Here you go


Thanks for the reference to my hack-about of the Paynes 6 frame to 8 frame box. (Yours are painted better!).

----------


## busybeephilip

> it's a Sublimox. Recommended to me by a couple of trusted commercials as being the dogs bits. Purchased from Icko. Blisteringly fast to treat (30-45s/colony) and very well tolerated by the bees. Unlike the Varrox-type it 'blows' the OA forcefully through the hive - top, bottom, side  all it needs is a 6-8mm hole into the box.


Looks like it does the job ok but an expensive wee toy for what it is, I'm sure the price will come down, I think I'll try glowplug and Alu block for now .

----------

