# General beekeeping > Queen raising >  Rainbow mini

## The Drone Ranger

Just had a look at my mini nucs which now include 6 Thornes rainbow nucs
I like them for their simplicity and price 
I didn't add any foundation strip just used them as they came
Of the 6 though 3 of them only built wax attached to the queen excluder
Most of it inside the feed compartment where the queen can't go 
Anyway those have been transfered to keilers now
I will be fitting some starter wax next time though

Anybody else using them ?

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## rogerb

No I have four Apideas that the mice have customised to some extent or another, so I think next time I will get these ones.

Looks like the frames have a surface that you just need to "paint" a little melted wax on for a comb starter, so a bit less hassle than starter strips on mine?

I only ever use them to mate a few "contingency" queens in case my splits fail for any reason, and when the splits fail they all seem to fail as well, something about Murphy's law I think.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi rogerb
That surface is easy to stick a wax starter to and that's what I will be doing next
They are cheap enough to use and they are good enough for the job
Good point about the risks of setting them all at the same time  :Smile: 


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## Adam

I like the idea of them - no polystyrene to chew through! 

My swi-bine mini-nucs have enlarged entrances due to chewing and one will not seal up as bees made a hole in it and escaped. 
Wasps went in underneath one a few years ago.  
And one of my apideas has wax moth holes in it too  :Frown: 

What is the entrance like? I can't see it in the photo.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi Adam 
the entrance is underneath like the one on keilers when you slide the floor back a bit

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## rogerb

I think I'd like this to have a rotary disk (like the polynucs I use) so you can switch quickly from open to vent to QE and shut as you feel the need.

I have lost a number of mated queens and bees as they all move off to pastures new from my Apideas and fitting the QE on them is okay but a bit of a faf, though the only way I know to stop HM from leaving.   

There is a nice little rotary one on the site that sells the rainbows it would be perfect for me if they would fit that style of entrance to it.

I saw once somebody cutting a hole with hole saw and then gluing in some copper pipe (to stop them chewing the edge), that might be the best solution for me.

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## prakel

> I think I'd like this to have a rotary disk (like the polynucs I use) so you can switch quickly from open to vent to QE and shut as you feel the need.
> 
> I have lost a number of mated queens and bees as they all move off to pastures new from my Apideas and fitting the QE on them is okay but a bit of a faf, though the only way I know to stop HM from leaving.


The plastic boxes would be easy enough to switch to qe by simply sliding the bottom into the relevant position. 

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## The Drone Ranger

> I think I'd like this to have a rotary disk (like the polynucs I use) so you can switch quickly from open to vent to QE and shut as you feel the need.
> 
> I have lost a number of mated queens and bees as they all move off to pastures new from my Apideas and fitting the QE on them is okay but a bit of a faf, though the only way I know to stop HM from leaving.   
> 
> There is a nice little rotary one on the site that sells the rainbows it would be perfect for me if they would fit that style of entrance to it.
> 
> I saw once somebody cutting a hole with hole saw and then gluing in some copper pipe (to stop them chewing the edge), that might be the best solution for me.


it has a queen excluder option on the base slider rogerb

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## rogerb

Ah I see now, that looks very good I might give one a try, I am fed up with the bees and mice eating all the polystyrene I own!

many thanks

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## The Drone Ranger

Another thing that might be worth noting is the crown board is fibreboard and a couple of them are showing some mould
That's where stick fingers have been possibly
anyway I'm going to give the crown board a little coating of acrylic emulsion to stop that happening

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## rogerb

When I get one I was thinking I'd get some clear Perspex like on the polynucs and then cut a little hole in the corner above the feeder so you can get a look in and fill up the feed without having to disturb the bees too much, I make that cut on my polynucs and it works well, except when they build brace in the feeder and block the float bar........

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## Adam

> Hi Adam 
> the entrance is underneath like the one on keilers when you slide the floor back a bit


I have one keiler and that was entered by wasps as an up and under (remember Eddie Waring and rugby league?) as there was a small gap underneath as the floor wasn't quite right across the entrance hole. Of course with bees inside it you don't look underneath to check every day. Result: dead colony  :Frown:

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## prakel

Well, having had the time to play around with the one which came our way I can now confirm that we got three mated queens out of it, one still waiting to be used and two now well established in their own full size nucs. So although it was a very different set up and management style to what we usually use I can't really fault these little boxes (even though they wouldn't be my first choice), @£8.50 they're unquestionably good value.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi prakel
I have six of the multicoloured little devils and I think they are perfect for summer mating 
When fairly close together queens can find their way home without  straying off into the one next door
Feed compartment is small and they don't have much frame space (a bit like apideas )
No chance whatever of overwintering one but even double height keilers are not reliable getting queens through
3 queens that's about £100 worth so the £8.50 was a good investment 😊



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## Jon

I have been painting my Apideas before packing them away for winter.
I am going to use at least 5 colours and mixing up the roofs, sliding doors and main bodies should provide a lot of unique colour combinations.

3 queens per unit is a good result prakel.
That's over £100 worth for an £8.50 investment.

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## prakel

> 3 queens that's about £100 worth so the £8.50 was a good investment





> 3 queens per unit is a good result prakel.
> That's over £100 worth for an £8.50 investment.


Must say I've been pleased with the results -I was a litle doubtful whether my rough and tumble beekeeping abilities would translate very well to this type of box  :Smile:  .

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## Jon

It's been a pretty good year for queen rearing and most of my final batch of grafts have just started to lay this week.

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## prakel

Been a good year for all aspects of beekeeping in these parts with what was the longest sustained flow I've ever known!

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## tonel

Bought a couple of these recently, looking forward to trying them out. Have tried mini nucs a couple of times in the past without much luck, but think I know where I went wrong - looking forward to having another go this year  :Smile:

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## prakel

> Bought a couple of these recently, looking forward to trying them out. Have tried mini nucs a couple of times in the past without much luck, but think I know where I went wrong - looking forward to having another go this year


I hope that they work well for you. I was happy enough with last year's results to add an extra nine through the winter.

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## tonel

Had a go at setting up the mini nucs - painted melted wax onto the starter strips, filled feeders (one with syrup, one with dry sugar dampened with water spray), added bees and kept closed up for 3 days. Had a look today but no wax drawn at all in either of them which was a bit disappointing! Am wondering if they need to have a queen or queen cell in there before they start drawing any comb? Had some cells ready to distribute today so made up some more mini nucs (this time with fondant) and added the cells, will keep them closed up for 3 days before setting out and hope for the best!

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## Jon

With a mini nuc I put in the virgin first through the floor then tip a scoop of wet bees on top of her. I open up on the evening of the second day.
If you are using queen cells make sure to keep closed until the queen has emerged from the cell.

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## Greengage

Exasperated............. First Apidea bees absconded, Second Queen hatched and F@@xxit she has now gone too, Maybe the thunder frightened her and the eggs that were there are gone too, this is not easy.
Any back to the drawing board again I have eggs hatched today in a cup kit and one queenless colony now off to transfer eggs on to frame and place in queenless hive, lets see how this goes.

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## tonel

Yep, they seem a bit tricky! Putting a couple out and opening this evening - daft question but does it need to be getting dark before opening them up? Worried that they might all abscond if too early (getting dark quite late now). Hoping they have drawn some comb this time..heard some quacking noises from one of the nucs so hoping at least one of the queens is okay.

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## madasafish

I have a couple of Rainbows. I insert QCs immediately after the bees. Spray twice a day with water through the underneath. And leave in cool dark garage for 3 days.. and set them out at c7.30pm. I open them when it is dark - about 9.30pm.The gap gives them a period to rest after the stress of moving and being bungeed in place (I use bungee cords to wrap round post and a wooden top and bottom (flat boards to hold them on a post and protect form the sun.),

None absconded so far..

(I do the same with all mini nucs - Kielers, Mann Lake and Apidea, and home made of course)


I have modified my Rainbows to front entrance and blocked up the bottom entrance. I use cork to bridge the hole in the front two walls to prevent bees escaping into the cavity .IMG_0380.JPGIMG_0379.JPG

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## Greengage

Ok Stage 1 part 4 Action.
This time transferred eggs from cup kit onto frame added to queenless hive now lets see how this goes.

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## Jimbo

With the cupkit I let the eggs hatch and transfer the one day old larvae  
I have never had success with just eggs


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## Greengage

Correct that didnt work either, Start again left cupkit in for bees to do their thing, will remove it in 24/48 hours place queen in it again and wait for eggs to hatch, On day 4/5 will place it back in queen-less hive and see how that goes.Ill be in touch.

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## Jimbo

With the cupkit I spray with a honey and water solution before placing it in the hive with the queen I am going to use for the bees to clean the cupkit and get the hive scent
I then place the queen in for 24 hrs then take a cup out the back to check if she has laid eggs. If not I leave her another 24 hrs as sometimes the queen will go off laying 
When I see eggs in the cups I release the queen back into the hive and leave the cupkit for the eggs to hatch
3/4 days from when you saw the eggs I check the cupkit for 1 day old larvae. If you check the back of the cup you will see a small milky substance in the bottom of the cup. 
These are the cups I then place on the bar frame for insertion into a queenless hive


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## Greengage

Thanks for that.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Thanks for that.


GG when it's time to release the queen just take the white plug out at the front and let her find her way out
If you take the Qx off the cassette front they are more likely to remove the eggs
Lift the brown cups out using a white cup holder 
Leave the cassette in at the same time as the cell bar and if you have missed you can pick up replacements from the cassette next day

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## Greengage

Ok its all these little tips that help, Ill keep you posted as I am determined to make this work.

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## Greengage

As all the politicians say in this part of the world and the in phrase here is "I have skin in the game" so were back at the queen rearing again let you know in 48 hours. Tolerant lady this queen, fingers crossed.

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## Greengage

Success 8 out of 11 drawn down, On 27th transferred eggs to queen-less hive 8 out of 11 have been drawn down, I gently had a peek so will leave alone until 4th of June then place rollers on fingers crossed.
Actually Iam running double brood boxes with the queen in the lower one with a QE between so the top half is queen less. That is where I placed the frame. if this works I will try grafting next time to see what happens.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Success 8 out of 11 drawn down, On 27th transferred eggs to queen-less hive 8 out of 11 have been drawn down, I gently had a peek so will leave alone until 4th of June then place rollers on fingers crossed.
> Actually Iam running double brood boxes with the queen in the lower one with a QE between so the top half is queen less. That is where I placed the frame. if this works I will try grafting next time to see what happens.


Update due GG ?


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## The Drone Ranger

Anybody else have the bees drawing wax in the feed compartment rather than use the third frame ( at the front)

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## Greengage

> Success 8 out of 11 drawn down, On 27th transferred eggs to queen-less hive 8 out of 11 have been drawn down, I gently had a peek so will leave alone until 4th of June then place rollers on fingers crossed.
> Actually Iam running double brood boxes with the queen in the lower one with a QE between so the top half is queen less. That is where I placed the frame. if this works I will try grafting next time to see what happens.


It has been pouring rain here from Sunday so I had a quick peek last night 6/6/17 and transferred two Q cells to Apidea with bees they are closed up in shed at moment watered, and will add syrup tomorrow. I thought they should have emerged yesterday so will have a peek tonight. Need to look in the Brood box again tonight if it stops raining but if they hatch they are confined in small roller cages, Attended a Queen rearing workshop last Sunday and I could ask all my silly questions also got a go at grafting so am going to try this next. Ill be in touch all tips and suggestions welcome. I will succeed (I hope)

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## The Drone Ranger

> It has been pouring rain here from Sunday so I had a quick peek last night 6/6/17 and transferred two Q cells to Apidea with bees they are closed up in shed at moment watered, and will add syrup tomorrow. I thought they should have emerged yesterday so will have a peek tonight. Need to look in the Brood box again tonight if it stops raining but if they hatch they are confined in small roller cages, Attended a Queen rearing workshop last Sunday and I could ask all my silly questions also got a go at grafting so am going to try this next. Ill be in touch all tips and suggestions welcome. I will succeed (I hope)


GG I would use fondant rather than syrup 
The idea is to fill the food compartment before you put the bees in
It lasts longer and doesn't attract too much attention from other bees
The water is to keep them cool and help use the fondant

It's unusual for cells to hatch later than expected
Using the cassette you pretty much get them exact
Grafting sometimes you pick a slightly more mature larva than the rest 
That one can hatch a day earlier than planned

Best of luck with them 
It's a cliff hanger I can't wait to hear how it turns out 
Thanks


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## Greengage

Had quick peek last night in brood box with cells, Looks like were a day overdue. Hope its the weather though I doubt it. Anyway its raining again today and due to do so all day so it will be Friday morning again I get back, if nothing has emerged its back to the drawing board again. Ill try fondant next time in feeder. No one said its going to be easy. if this rain keeps up they will have consumed a lot of stores. Ah sure its all a learning experience. Thanks for your interest.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Had quick peek last night in brood box with cells, Looks like were a day overdue. Hope its the weather though I doubt it. Anyway its raining again today and due to do so all day so it will be Friday morning again I get back, if nothing has emerged its back to the drawing board again. Ill try fondant next time in feeder. No one said its going to be easy. if this rain keeps up they will have consumed a lot of stores. Ah sure its all a learning experience. Thanks for your interest.


There are people like Jon who have this down to a fine art
One thing I have done several times is to put the cages on too early
Usually because of impending bad weather or bad note taking 
That can be just at the most vulnerable stage and they don't hatch


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## alancooper

Ah yes - the the risks at every stage of Q rearing (20% each stage - at best) combined with (as I know myself) beekeeper gaffs and wet/windy weather (sod's law) - surely do make a roller-coaster of cliff hangers. And yes, you do learn a lot, especially by the mistakes - but sure, the sheer pleasure of it keeps me a bee keeper. 

So - in mid-May I harvested two Q cells for Apideas - one vQ was killed by the workers on the outside of the ventilation grill ("could not fly"?, returned to the wrong Apidea?) - I am unsure if the second was mated or whether laying is just delayed. A week later, a Cloake Board hive I had prepared for grafting was ready and I had a 8/14 grafts take, a 7/8 hatched (in an incubator), one was 2 days, one was a day early and 5 were on time - large dark beauties. Transfer to Apideas was successful and then before the vQs were ready to mate, the weather broke to wet, cool and windy...........???  :Smile:

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## Greengage

Update  Four queens successfully emerged. The fifth Queen I killed as was curious to see inside cell she was alive but not developed enough. Two did not emerge at all. So three queens in APideas one in Queen cage ready to move to new owner and three dead one my fault others nature took its course. Now I need good weather and Luck.
Put cupkit back in for bees to clean up and I will try grafting next week if weather improves.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Update  Four queens successfully emerged. The fifth Queen I killed as was curious to see inside cell she was alive but not developed enough. Two did not emerge at all. So three queens in APideas one in Queen cage ready to move to new owner and three dead one my fault others nature took its course. Now I need good weather and Luck.
> Put cupkit back in for bees to clean up and I will try grafting next week if weather improves.


Not bad going they would have cost £20 each unmated from some suppliers
As mated queens 4 @ £35 would be £150
pretty easy once you get started GG
weather expected to be ok on Thursday  :Smile: 

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## madasafish

.
From my first try,I only managed 5 viable QCs and only 2 emerged. I decided that I was not adding enough bees . A ground frost did not help.
Decided to increase the number of bees by 50% to 1.5 cups Just inspected my last batch in my collection of min nucs. Out of  11 QCs, 8 emerged.  No frosts this time but 5C one night.

Slowly getting there but it's like teeth pulling.

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## The Drone Ranger

> .
> From my first try,I only managed 5 viable QCs and only 2 emerged. I decided that I was not adding enough bees . A ground frost did not help.
> Decided to increase the number of bees by 50% to 1.5 cups Just inspected my last batch in my collection of min nucs. Out of  11 QCs, 8 emerged.  No frosts this time but 5C one night.
> 
> Slowly getting there but it's like teeth pulling.


Hi madasafish
There are a couple of advantages to having the queens hatch into roller cages (in the cell raiser)
You only need make up the number of mininucs to match the hatched queens
You still need a couple of days of shut in for the mini nuc but that should be enough
having said that your existing system seems pretty good  :Smile: 

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## Greengage

Three queens mated and laying now to transfer teem to Nucs Suggestions please easiest way.

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## madasafish

> Three queens mated and laying now to transfer teem to Nucs Suggestions please easiest way.


I just put them with attendants in an introduction cage and check after 4 days to see if released. If not, I release them.

(In bad tempered cases, i make wire cage which fits over foundation and allows queen free movement..)

So far so good.

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