# General beekeeping > Starting out >  starting out

## newforestbees

have been interested in beekeeping for a while, much useful information on this site, like, for example the swarm sticky and the part where you open the hive and find the combs thick with bees, so how do you find queen cells under that lot.

also found this site via the thread on bee suits like the look of these hives 
http://www.swienty.com/shop/kurv.asp?shopact=clearall

anyone usingthem? seem a good price especially if brought in bulk

ok regarding stings - I've been stung by a hornet and that's far more painful than a bee or wasp

Also finance. Local beekeeper's associtaion says allow £600 start up costs

Any members either East Dorset/west Hapshireas would like some hands on/mentoring. In return I run a gardening buisness and would be prepared to do some work in return

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## Jon

Swienty Polyhives are good quality.
One tip is to use the equipment which is most common in your area. ie if they use Nationals go with that or go with Langstroth if that is more common.
If you buy flatpack and assemble yourself it works out a lot cheaper.
Thorne have flatpack cedar supers at £13.50 each in the current sale. A brood box is £18.
£600 sounds like a lot of money for a start up.
Some suppliers do complete start up kits for a lot less.
This is the Thorne offer and others are likely cheaper.

Check out Maisemore, Paynes and Abelo to compare prices.

http://www.thorne.co.uk/hives-and-be...-a-budget-kits

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## prakel

Hi, I wouldn't want to commit to a mentoring relationship but we hope to be expanding into east Dorset this coming year so you'd be welcome to visit at some point; at the very least you'll go away knowing how not to do it  :Smile: . 

Regarding stings I think the real 'test' comes when we're faced with a mad colony -it's not the impact of the sting but rather, the remorseless onslaught of hundreds of stinging bees. That's when we think _why bother?_! But, as Dalton said 'pain don't hurt'.

Can't comment on the local beekeeper's £600 start up estimate, all I know is that I've never got enough cash hence I've made kit out of all kinds of scrap; ran supers with nothing but top bars; not bought foundation in years and used slabs of kingspan as roofs. The important thing is the bees, if they're good you can get away with a lot less than the ideal box. We'd all like nice, smart gear and I will, one day, be having a good burn-up of all the less than perfect kit I've put together.... who am I kidding, I'll be turning it into bait hives and still using it. *Bait hives*, neatly summed up.

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## Jon

Bees will be happy in almost any container as long as it is watertight, the right capacity and with a suitable sized entrance.
Like Prakel, I make a lot of my own kit out of scrap wood. I have made about 15 floors this winter and quite a few hive stands.
A sheet of correx folds to make an improvised roof.
I bought a sheet of 12mm ply in B & Q for £28 the other week and made 10 crown boards and 3 floors from it.
Thorne sell a single flimsy 6mm crown board for about £15
If you are only planning on one hive it makes sense to go for the best but if you plan on expanding it can turn into an expensive hobby unless you are selling honey or other products to offset costs.

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## Neils

I think £600, starting from scratch with brand new kit and getting hold of some bees is a reasonable estimate if potentially a little conservative. It is of course possible to start out for far less (if you can get a swarm or a mentor to gift you some bees that will save you £1-200 at current prices) especially if you're  reasonably handy with a saw.  A stand will cost you £30+ but can be knocked up from scrap wood or a couple of breize blocks for example.

Local associations often have auctions, normally towards the start of the season which can be a good way of getting gear on the cheap but would be worth latching on to someone with a bit more experience who can advise whether that thing is actually a bargain.

A little outside East Devon, but if you're passing by Somerset(wells) you're welcome to give me a shout.

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## newforestbees

thanks for all your comments

I hear claims that polyhives increase honey production and bees seem to overwinter better in them and would be interested if these claims are backed up by evidence. The fact that they seem to last longer, are lighter and easier to clean do seem a bonus. The complete kit (frames and foundation need to be purchased seperately as well as queen excluder and porter bee escapes if I choose that route) plus recommendation to paint the exterior comes at around £80 each at todays rates

I do indeed, intend to sell honey and other products as well as brewing my own mead thus saving over buying commercially produced alcohol

as for stock, advised that as a beginner a swarm is not sutiable, because you don't know what you are getting. It could be diseased even possibly AFB or aggressive. Better to start with a small colony with docile bees headed by a young queen, then as the colony grows, so should your confidence build up to the point where you are happy to handle a full strength colony

came across thishttp://www.cornwallhoney.co.uk/beepedia/beevital.htm

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## Jon

Definitely start with good bees, ie bees which are not aggressive.
Your local association may well have a nuc supply programme associated with a mentoring scheme.
There are pros and cons to any hive choice and I don't think the wood vs poly issue is critical.
I have mainly cedar nationals but I use a lot of poly nucs and have just bought 15 poly brood boxes to try out this year.
I think there is some evidence that bees overwinter better in Poly but they are a little more awkward to clean as you can't scorch with a blowlamp.
Washing soda is the usual way to clean.

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## newforestbees

thanks, date in diary feb 10 funds avaliable join local association

as for bees living in any old container one of the bee books I have read cited that a colony decided to use an old oil drum as a hive. Despite the drum being too hot to place one's hands on in summer the bees survived

Cleaning poly. would baby sterilizing fluid (Milton) or home brew sterilizing work. my local 99p store once had bottles of this on sale

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## drumgerry

As a home brewer myself I'd be wary about using the chlorine based sterilisation solutions.  Cleaning poly is usually done with washing soda I think and although I own a fair few poly hives they've never needed cleaning yet.  If a colony were to die of unknown causes in one that'd be a different matter but not had that happen yet.

Ps - there's a huge thread on here on poly vs wood which would be worth a read for you in making your choice.  of course you'll have slightly different overwintering concerns in the balmy south to us here in the frozen north!

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## Mellifera Crofter

> ...
> 
> as for bees living in any old container one of the bee books I have read cited that a colony decided to use an old oil drum as a hive. Despite the drum being too hot to place one's hands on in summer the bees survived
>  ...


I don't know ...  Bees colonised a drum at my uncle's house, and while he was still trying to figure out how to become a beekeeper and give them a good home, their combs melted in the sun and they left (well, that was in South Africa).  So, they may use any old container - but it might be a wrong choice.  Give them a good home.

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## busybeephilip

quote Jon :Washing soda is the usual way to clean.

For a confirmed AFB infection I don't believe that 20% washing soda would be of much use in the case of poly hives.  Washing soda will not destroy / sterilize AFB spores, which are highly resistant to destruction, but is used to aid washing surfaces clean from propolis and wax followed by a lot of rinsing then soaking in disinfectant the idea being to minimize the risk to an acceptable level by removing adhering propolis so that the surface can be disinfected, poly hives might have too many holes in the surface that would retain active AFB spores.  In my opinion the only solution to sterilize poly would be to Burn, use irradiation or soak submerged in a barrel virkon-S overnight after scrubbing with soda.  The chlorine in virkon might, i dont know, affect the poly box.  Virkon-s is available in a safe tablet form and is not that expensive to prepare a 10%  (10g/l) barrel load ( 40 gallons = approx 180 litres uses 1.8kg at £25-£30)  which is only active USED freshly prepared.  Alternatively one could use domestos bleach at a final 1% hypochlorite solution, you would need to check the hypo conc of the bleach bottle first which is usually around 4.5% (so you need to make a 1 in 4 to 5 dilution, one gallon bleach to 40 gall water, from the original bottle, again, an overnight soak is advised)

Its easier to use wooden boxes and a blowlamp. 

Hope this helps a bit :Cool: 

Philip

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## newforestbees

one hears a lot regarding AFB how many confirmed infections have occurred recently?

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## gavin

> one hears a lot regarding AFB how many confirmed infections have occurred recently?


None detected in Dorset or Hampshire last year: http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/publi...Statistics.cfm 

It is a disease that spreads slowly (often by beekeepers) and can be overlooked by those with less knowledge or poor eyesight.  So there are infrequent discoveries which sometimes give rise to a significant number of cases which, after they are eliminated, knocks it back again locally .... for a time.  Worth being very cautious with old equipment and being attentive, but you are unlikely to see it in your own hives.

Swarms are pretty low risk.  Don't feed them initially and they'll use up the honey they bring making wax and clean up their mouthparts as they do so.  It will be a couple of days before the queen lays if they were just given foundation then another three before there are any larvae to feed - which is why shook swarms often work for EFB (always under an inspector's direction).

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## mbc

> None detected in Dorset or Hampshire last year: http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/publi...Statistics.cfm 
> 
> It is a disease that spreads slowly (often by beekeepers) and can be overlooked by those with less knowledge or poor eyesight.  So there are infrequent discoveries which sometimes give rise to a significant number of cases which, after they are eliminated, knocks it back again locally .... for a time.  Worth being very cautious with old equipment and being attentive, but you are unlikely to see it in your own hives.


Spot on.
It's given more air time than its worth because it is a statutory noticeable disease, I've heard it being called useful as its a "foot in the door"!
Now, if we could redirect the energy and resources pumped into combating foul brood( which effects ~1% of colonies), into improving winter losses (which regularly takes >20% of all known colonies in the UK on an annual basis! ), then we might get somewhere towards sustainability, but that would take a bottom up approach starting with the bees themselves, and for whatever reasons the authorities shy away from such an approach, preferring to meddle on the inconsequential edges. Ho hum!

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## newforestbees

I was recommended this site elsewhere, and what a useful mine of information. Halfway through one of the poly v wood threads and leaning towards Sweinty poly Langstroths on the basis that they are brand new (no fear of infection) and should repay for their investment over the years.

Certainly been cold down here, heavy frost so we do get our hard spells but not as often or prolonged up North.

Many New Forest beekeepers take their hives onto the Forest, the local association charges a minimal fee per hive for heather honey

one of their recent newsletters carried the story "Wrong sort of drone" where in the USA one of these devices was flown over a shopping mall being demolished. A local colony of bees objected to it and attacked it. Bystanders also were stung, and the operator forced to land the machine from the saftey of his car

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## Jon

> quote Jon :Washing soda is the usual way to clean.
> 
> For a confirmed AFB infection I don't believe that 20% washing soda would be of much use in the case of poly hives.


I agree. With AFB they would be best destroyed. I was only talking about general cleaning rather than removal of AFB spores.
In NI there are rarely more than half a dozen detections of AFB per year. Mind you we only have 2 bee inspectors at the moment.
We had a couple of cases of EFB in N Antrim last summer which were the first detected for many years. Virkon will sort EFB but not sure how effective it is with AFB spores.

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## prakel

> I was recommended this site elsewhere, and what a useful mine of information. Halfway through one of the poly v wood threads and leaning towards Sweinty poly Langstroths....
> 
> Certainly been cold down here, heavy frost so we do get our hard spells but not as often or prolonged up North.


If I was starting again from scratch I reckon that the poly langs would be pretty high up my list of possible choices, all one size box. 

As for frost, we had our annual one last night so we should be OK till next January  :Smile: .

edit: but, just to be clear, if I was planning on a lot of colonies it'd be wood all the way.

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