# General beekeeping > Everything and anything >  Fondant or syrup for autumn feeding

## Mellifera Crofter

Reading Fatshark's recent article, I wondered whether feeding fondant will also encourage the bees to draw out foundation, as C4U explained when using syrup (or invert syrup).
Kitta

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## fatshark

Not much in my experience ...

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## Mellifera Crofter

Thanks Fatshark.

That seems to confirm my experience with a wooden mini-nuc in which you can only feed the bees fondant.  They only drew out a couple of half arcs of comb despite the queen having been mated and laying.  Maybe I didn't have enough bees in there to start off with, or bees of the wrong age.

Anyway - as for autumn feeding, I still have to decide what to do this year!

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## fatshark

Good morning ... I was out checking fondant levels just now and remembered I should have added that I've had good success in using fondant in mini-nucs. My initial attempts using syrup just resulted in spillages. I liked that I could squeeze the fondant into the feeder, invert the min-nuc to add the bees and then just prise up the cover flap to pop in a queen cell. These were Kielers and I did have a habit of adding too many bees (and I always screened these through a QE moving up to open brood, so they were young) ... but they certainly drew out the comb OK.

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## Mellifera Crofter

I didn't screen the bees I put in the mini-nuc.  I just shook the second shake of bees from a honey super into an upturned roof, and then scooped a cupful of bees from there.  Perhaps that was my mistake.  I've since moved the queen into a nuc, and she's doing well.

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## Bridget

> Reading Fatshark's recent article, I wondered whether feeding fondant will also encourage the bees to draw out foundation, as C4U explained when using syrup (or invert syrup).
> Kitta


We have been taking off supers and reducing to one brood box.  Hoping to feed syrup to encourage the drawing out of foundation.  However the brood frames are jammed with stores, its hard to find frames to replace with new and if I feed syrup Im afraid the queen will have no space to lay her winter bees.  Does Calluna4u do this on double brood Kitta.

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## Mellifera Crofter

Bridget, that's a question I meant to ask Murray when I saw him on Saturday.  I suppose you can remove some of the frames with stores, and replace them with foundation.  You can then use the store frames again in springtime, or when you need them for nucs later next year.

Alternatively, perhaps, once they've drawn out a frame of foundation, but before they're filling it with stores, remove it for next year, and return the frame with stores.  The problem is, the weather is getting worse, and I think one might not want that kerfuffle of changing combs around in cold weather.

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## Bridget

We should have been more diligent about moving old black frames to the outside.  Would have made it easier for sure.  


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## greengumbo

> We should have been more diligent about moving old black frames to the outside.  Would have made it easier for sure.  
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


It's still only September. In my (limited!) experience, the bees will happily rearrange stuff around and the weather outlook is decent. I'll be bringing bees back from heather this week and removing honey from around the brood nest, extracting and giving them fresh foundation when putting feed on. Plenty brood still being reared in even my highland hives.

Hives I wont be doing foundation swaps I will feed with fondant as per fatshark. Works a treat.

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## fatshark

I checked a couple of boxes today. One had finished a full box of fondant in 15 days which is very fast in my experience. Other hives of similar strength in there same apiary were only a third or so through theirs (the quick eaters are not being robbed, the hive is v. strong). As GG says, lots of brood in the boxes I looked at. The dearth at the end of August put some queens off laying but they've picked up really well. 

IMG_20190913_142301.jpg

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## Mellifera Crofter

Did the slow eaters have more stored food in their hives, Fatshark?

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## Neils

Just to extend the question into Winter.

checked hives today while doing an OA vape.  Lots of bees in each Hive which was nice to see in some regards and not entirely unexpected as we've not really had much in the way of cold weather.  Both the hives are a lot lighter than I would like, especially given how busy they still are.

They have 1kg fondant on each Hive for now, but that is not going to last them long.  If the weather stays mild, whats the feeling on topping up with some 2:1 syrups?  External temp not due to drop much below 10 degrees for the next week.

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## Mellifera Crofter

I think it's easier to just top up the fondant, Neils, and wait with the syrup until spring - and even then, only if they need it.  Up here in Scotland the weather changes rapidly: one day it's bitterly cold, and the next a comfortable windless day with bees flying about.
Kitta

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