# General beekeeping > Starting out >  What I learned in my second year...

## Neils

As a follow up to this, I think it's now late enough in the year to follow it up with what I think I've learned this year.


1) I still don't have enough bloody kit.
I spent a small fortune this year on more hives, extra thingies to finagle the boondoggle, supers, nails, oh so many nails, frames and other shenanigans and I still didn't have enough kit.

2) Buy, steal, Make or pay Jon to make you a couple of Nucs.
To repeat the mantra from around these parts: "There is little in beekeeping that cannot be solved by putting something into, or taking something out of a Nuc".  I have one, I could have done with at least 3 at one point.

3) My bees also read every beekeeping forum and are aware of what advice over and above what's in the books I'm likely to receive.
So they're doing something different again!

4) You will still lose a swarm.
This time it will be just about when you're patting yourself on the back for not having lost a swarm.

5) Don't over exert yourself (or your store of kit).
It's better to look after 3 colonies well than try to go to 5,6,7+ hives and struggle when things go a bit pear shaped because you haven't got enough kit or experience to cope.  At one point I had two "spare" Nucs that I was considering either giving to someone else or making into colonies myself. In the end I used them both to deal with unforseen problems in other colonies.

6) If you get a chance to shadow a more experienced beekeeper, take it.
I spent a day with a seasonal and ex seasonal inspector going through around 40-50 colonies between us. I learned more on that day than I have done before or since. I got tips and advice on just about every aspect of my beekeeping from how I used my hive tool, how I moved over open hives, just what it was that I was looking at and why it was like that, how to cut down my inspection times, what records I actually need to keep and so on.

7) Don't be afraid to ask.
The same SBI was doing my basic assessment and we found European Foul Brood in the hive. As there were several other hives in the apiary and I was already "exposed" I asked if they wanted a hand taking notes, bagging frames and doing all the other gubbins. Not the most fun by any stretch of the imagination, but incredibly useful.

8) When inspecting don't look for what is right, look for what is wrong.
Might be different for other people, but when I'm looking for what I want to see ("Bright, white and curled up tight") I find it easy to miss what I don't.  This year I learned to look for what I don't want to see instead. Sounds obvious and I do it every day for a living as a data analyst but sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees.  I had to learn it for my day job too.

9) There's a lot of bollocks spouted in beekeeping. By a lot of people, some of whom should know better.
The hard part is spotting it and understanding why it's being spouted.

10) Idealism gives way to pragmatism.
Your bees and your neighbour's bees for that matter don't give a fig roll what you believe, they just want to get on with it. Don't be afraid to be flexible if it means helping them to do that.

11) The education programmes on offer are well worth the time.
They make you think, they make you read, they make you consider alternatives. Even if you don't actually want to do the exams, get your hands on the syllabus material and work through it, it'll make you a better (informed) beekeeper.

12) The first pot of honey is bloody lovely.
And it's all yours! all the rest belongs to Mum, great aunt mildred, everyone else who ever knew you kept bees and anyone who sees a pot of your honey. And what you do manage to sell wont even put a dent in what you've spent so far.

13) If you wander around in a bee suit people will stop you to ask questions.... mostly about wasps.
You might think you're only in it for the bees, everyone else will expect you to know about anything stripey with 6 legs, what plants are best, how bad CCD is in America, killer bees, swarms and honey, but mostly they'll ask you about wasps.

14) If you buy an extractor now, after the first use you'll already be planning on how to convince the Mrs that a 22 frame, motorised, Radial extractor instead of the 4 frame tangential one you bought at the time would look nice in the living room.

----------


## Jon

Good post Neil.




> 1) I still don't have enough bloody kit.
> I spent a small fortune this year on more hives, extra thingies to finagle the boondoggle, supers, nails, oh so many nails, frames and other shenanigans and I still didn't have enough kit.


Last night watching the footie with a mate I was boasting about how little I spend on my pay as you go mobile, which I charge with my credit card. I checked my statements today and sure enough I have only spent 60 quid on the mobile this year. Unfortunately  I happened to notice that I have spent hundreds of pounds on bee stuff in the last few months. 3k Apiguard tub £85 for example.




> 2) Buy, steal, Make or pay Jon to make you a couple of Nucs.
> To repeat the mantra from around these parts: "There is little in beekeeping that cannot be solved by putting something into, or taking something out of a Nuc". I have one, I could have done with at least 3 at one point.


Neil, you must have duff polititicians around Bristol., Ok. Maybe not quite as Neandrathal as ours but surely worthy of smiling out from a nuc.




> 4) You will still lose a swarm.
> This time it will be just about when you're patting yourself on the back for not having lost a swarm.


Possibly my greatest claim to fame this year is no swarms emitted let alone a swarm lost. 4 colonies started making queen cells but I did an AS on two of them and removed the queen from two others which cramped their style. Mind you in the last two months I have had a lot of queens go missing but just a loss of one bee at a time.




> 6) If you get a chance to shadow a more experienced beekeeper, take it.
> I spent a day with a seasonal and ex seasonal inspector going through around 40-50 colonies between us. I learned more on that day than I have done before or since. I got tips and advice on just about every aspect of my beekeeping from how I used my hive tool, how I moved over open hives, just what it was that I was looking at and why it was like that, how to cut down my inspection times, what records I actually need to keep and so on.


Very true. I learned a lot about Apideas from Mervyn Eddie this year as he manages about 75 and I was able to pick his brains when I left mine over to his apiary to get queens mated.




> 9) There's a lot of bollocks spouted in beekeeping. By a lot of people, some of whom should know better.
> The hard part is spotting it and understanding why it's being spouted.


Most noticible on beekeeping forums - some a lot worse than others.




> 13) If you wander around in a bee suit people will stop you to ask questions.... mostly about wasps.
> You might think you're only in it for the bees, everyone else will expect you to know about anything stripey with 6 legs, what plants are best, how bad CCD is in America, killer bees, swarms and honey, but mostly they'll ask you about wasps.


I don't like bee suits as they only draw attention to the fact that you have bees in the area. I just use a veil and I only put it on when noone is looking!
I nearly nominated myself for the Darwin awards the day before yesterday. I had a colony to requeen, the one which ditched its queen last week, and I had to check a queen from an Apidea I had suspended between two frames in a roller cage. I nipped up at lunch time to see how things were going.
I carefully put on my nitrile gloves, lifted the crown board a bit, and put in a puff ot two of smoke before removing it. 
I spread a couple of towels over the top of the frames to keep the heat in and the bees quiet.
I pushed the frames forward to remove the roller to check the queen inside and at that point a bee flew out and stung me on the forehead.
That's odd, I thought, I never get stung on the head.
I looked over and saw my veil sitting on the lid of the neighbouring hive.
I put it on pretty damn quick!

----------


## GRIZZLY

Most people ask me about stinging as tho' it's a big deal. "Ooh your so brave "playing" with those nasty stingy things".When I say i've kept bees for nearly 40 years, never wear gloves and actually don't feel stings for more than a couple of seconds - I get a look of disbelief .As for equipment,I've collected loads, a lot inherited from well meaning colleagues and a lot i've made for myself.Most of it is now obsolete to my current beekeeping practices-piles of floors 'cos  I now use mesh  floors, 16x10 brood bodies 'cos I now use National brood bodies and stacks of the wrong size 16x10 frames etc.etc. So have faith Nellie  , like me you will never stop learning  and you will eventually adopt your own  calm  gentle style of handling bees .

----------


## Neils

Don't worry about me, I'm having a whale of a time  :Big Grin: 

I know I'm bad winter away from having a huge pile of spares and that it'll come soon enough.

----------


## Neils

Don't worry about me, I'm having a whale of a time  :Big Grin: 

I know I'm bad winter away from having a huge pile of spares and that it'll come soon enough.

----------


## gavin

Just settling down after a marvellous meal (I was cooking he adds modestly) which involved 'boozy prunes' added to a stew, brought to that state by prolonged soaking in brandy.  Is that why I seem to seeing double?!

----------


## Neils

I blame the dodgy forum admi.... oh.

----------


## Jimbo

Too many boozy prunes and pressing the delete key perhaps!!!

----------


## POPZ

This thread was rather interesting and seriously educational, especially for me as much of it seems to apply to myself as well. BUT suddenly gavin steps in and lowers the tone considerably - prunes, booze and showing off about his cookery skills.
Ah well - I guess we all have our weird moments !!!!!

----------


## Neils

> I don't like bee suits as they only draw attention to the fact that you have bees in the area. I just use a veil and I only put it on when noone is looking!
> I nearly nominated myself for the Darwin awards the day before yesterday. I had a colony to requeen, the one which ditched its queen last week, and I had to check a queen from an Apidea I had suspended between two frames in a roller cage. I nipped up at lunch time to see how things were going.
> I carefully put on my nitrile gloves, lifted the crown board a bit, and put in a puff ot two of smoke before removing it. 
> I spread a couple of towels over the top of the frames to keep the heat in and the bees quiet.
> I pushed the frames forward to remove the roller to check the queen inside and at that point a bee flew out and stung me on the forehead.
> That's odd, I thought, I never get stung on the head.
> I looked over and saw my veil sitting on the lid of the neighbouring hive.
> I put it on pretty damn quick!


I try not to be spotted too much, but word gets around pretty quickly. In some respects it's quite helpful. One of my apiaries is on land open to the public with no vehicle access so it's pretty hard to disguise a smoker on the way there or back and I do know that I have a veritable army of people watching over my hives who'll let me know if there's any trouble.

And after a couple of minutes chatting about bees and flowers conversation inevitably turns to the wasp nest they have in the attic.

----------


## queenB

Enjoyed reading this post being 2 years into beekeeping myself now. After 2 years of beekeeping Ive learnt four important things 1) It costs a lot of money in the beginning 2) Stings are still bloody sore  3) Ive yet to get a single jar of honey from my lot so it isnt as easy as it looks and 4) Swarm control gets in the way of holidays. But I love working with my bees and Im confident that when the honey comes it will be well worth the wait. And the excitement of things like seeing your first homebred queen starting to lay beats holidays anyway.

----------


## Neils

> Ive yet to get a single jar of honey from my lot so it isnt as easy as it looks


Hi queenB,  can I just ask an honest question (bearing in mind Bristol is a little bit more than "just" south of Aberdeen)?  Why do you think you didn't get any honey in your second season?

Was it circumstance? Choice of hive? Making sure the bees had enough of the honey they made to see them through? A rotten summer where you were?

I agree with 1,2 and 4 and absolutely about seeing your first homebred queen [laying].

----------


## queenB

Hi Nellie
I think I didnt get any honey yet mainly because of the reasons you suggest. Ive started from scratch in 2009 summer and been concentrating on increasing my bee numbers. Started with just one small colony in a brand new hive (my hives are nationals). In year 2 I split it to make two colonies but the weather wasnt kind and the bees had a lot of work to do...drawing comb in all that brand new frames. The new queen didnt start laying until mid August so that colony was very slow to take off. I bought a third colony last year but again it was small and I got it on a few frames only. The little honey my bees did make, I left with them deciding they needed it more than me. In addition to their own supplies, each colony took about 25kilos of abrosia late last summer so they obviously didnt have enough honey to do themselves let alone me. But they all went into the winter strong and with a full super of food above the brood boxes (Im working brood and a half over winter). Perhaps Im overfeeding them but better to have to much than too little I thought. This summer....Im confident there will be some to spare and I cant wait!!!! Mead recipe ready!!!

----------


## Adam

With regard to home-bred queens, my first was in my first year after I lost a swarm and I was left with a colony with queencells. The relief and pleasure when I opened up the hive after weeks and weeks to see several frames of brood and a young queen was immense.   :Smile: 

I'm not convinced about mead though. The only mead I've tried I didn't like!


Adam

----------


## Neils

I quite like it, but I wouldn't want more than a small glass in any given session.

Queenb, sounds like were in a very similar stage at the moment. Wonder if perhaps the weather is the main difference between our fortunes?

I started 2010 with one colony and split three ways during the AS as I'd also made up a small Nuc as insurance. I hived that into a 14x12 in late July. I got no honey from that one but did get around 80 jars from the other two.  The brood side of the AS ended up producing the mist honey despite me accidentally losing the queen in that one. The queen side ended up swarming again and I misread that as supersedure so might have had abit more from them if I hadnt messed up.

We had pretty much a heat wave from late April to mid July and they've lots of forage here so they roared off in the spring.

----------


## beeanne

Biggest lesson? The smell of a hive on a heather moor when you have morning sickness is truely appalling. Also, bee-phobic husbands CAN do the heavy lifting of supers if they really need to.

----------


## queenB

80 jars of honey...wow!! That is exciting. We have plenty of forage so that shouldnt be a problem (I keep hives on grazing land which borders peatlands so they have clover on one side of them and heather on the other. Also lots of willow, hawthorn and gorse on their doorstep. We planted a lot of borage around the hives last summer which went down well (I really hope it has survived the cold winter and makes a come-back this summer). I think the weather probably did play a part - we had a lot of rain and definately no heat waves!! We will have better luck this year I hope. Luckily my partner isnt bee-phobic...infact he has become nearly as keen as me and we often fight over who gets to do the bee tasks.

----------


## EmsE

I wasn't lucky enough to get any honey last year either which I think was for a couple of reasons. I also started the year with 1 colony and carried out an artificial swarm when I found the first queen cells. The bees however intended this to be supercedure, kicked the old queen out (a 2009 one) & proceeded to raise a new one. Both hives took a good couple of months to build up after this. Whilst I think that was the reason for no honey, the weather didn't help matters either. Whilst we had excellent weather to the end of June, it was far too dry the lack of rain caused a problem with the nectar flow in June & July was the usual washout (the usual really for school hols). 

However, how would I judge the year? I think it was an excellent one. I doubled my stock and quadrupled the number of bee-keeping quandaries flying through my head, although I I wouldn't say no to having honey as well. 

Adam, Mead is one of the most fulfilling wines to make. It clears so easily and the good thing is that you can make it to suit your taste. It's lovely made with rosehips and you can experiment with whatever edible forage you have in your area for a bit of variety.

----------


## Neils

I have to add something new to my list that I learned today.

Treat all your colonies in the same apiary for varroa at the same time. (and get as many beekeepers around you to do so too if you can).

Was looking at some figures, and I'll try and get some links sorted out, relating to the rate of re-infestation of Varroa into a colony at the end of its treatment. The short version is it's fast and in quantity, to the point that in some studies they mistook it for signs of resistance to the treatments being applied.

----------


## gavin

That would be very interesting, thanks Neil.

----------


## Neils

Funnily enough my intitial searches all return anecdotal accounts on Scottish Beekeeping Association Sites.

There's a study from way back in 1989, but I've only just noticed that the springer.com links want to charge €34 to read the full report. More digging to follow...

Nuts, I wrote loads of notes around this point as, knowing I'd treated my colonies a couple of weeks apart, it was a point that pretty much made me sit bolt upright. I just don't think he mentioned the name of the actual study that was being carried out at the time or the one(presumably) that they used to get these figures.

----------


## Rosie

> Was looking at some figures, and I'll try and get some links sorted out, relating to the rate of re-infestation of Varroa into a colony at the end of its treatment. The short version is it's fast and in quantity, to the point that in some studies they mistook it for signs of resistance to the treatments being applied.


Nellie, if you are referring to yesterday's varroa conference it was stated by Dr Jochen Pflugfelder that the reinfestation rate was typically 50 mites a day but could be 4 times greater!

Rosie

----------


## Jon

The big danger is a 4000 mite colony which collapses in September or October and then gets robbed out as every mite will hitch a ride back to another colony.

----------

