# General beekeeping > Starting out >  Hello.......

## Maybee

So here goes, I've bought a book, a national hive and have emailed the kilbarchan bee keepers.   A million other things I need before I start - any tips of what to buy, and what not to?

Anyone local (Renfrewshire/elderslie) that would let me have a look at how you work with your hives?)

Susie

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## Paul

Hi Susie, pleased to meet you  :Big Grin: 

Seems there's quite a few people out in the Kilbarchan area taking up Bees recently. You just missed a visit to one of their members Apiaries a few weeks ago, where there were quite a few of us newbies seeing what it was all about. There will be another one at the end of July I think. In the meantime EmsE and HJBee on here are members of the KBA and will know more about what's going on and help you with your questions.

There's also the Glasgow BA who meet in Scotstoun. They had a meeting last week which was quite informative on honey production and extraction. It's a bit further out but I found it worth the travel. If you need contact details for them, just ask.

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## HJBee

Hi Maybee, I am a KBA member and local enough. Just did a couple if hours stint tonight (in fact have been out most days since last Friday - it's a busy time of the beekeeping season.

Have you any protective clothing? Do you have an empty hive, or do you have bees too? When did you e-mail the Assc? What has drawn you to the world of beekeeping?

HJ

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## gavin

> So here goes, I've bought a book, a national hive and have emailed the kilbarchan bee keepers.   A million other things I need before I start - any tips of what to buy, and what not to?
> 
> Anyone local (Renfrewshire/elderslie) that would let me have a look at how you work with your hives?)
> 
> Susie


It gives your Admin a little warm glow of satisfaction to see threads like this.  :Smile:  

There are great books, good books, and not so great books.  Everyone seems to have written a book on beekeeping (I haven't written mine yet).  If it was one that came with a beginner's kit it should be good.  Hooper, Campion, Cramp, several others, there are several which are good for beginners. 

What not to buy?  Too much stuff.  Little fiddly things on impulse during your visit to the bee appliance shop.  

What to buy?  Oh, maybe a nucleus box (get it overwinter in a sale as if you get a nucleus stock this summer, as you shouldn't need it until next spring).  A feeder.  A box of long-cuffed thin nitrile gloves - whether or not these Kilbarchan beekeepers use 'em.  Greater sensitivity, less bee crushing, less attempts at stinging, and little chance of them getting through anyway.  You can pick up queens with them on.  But there's a long list .....

Thanks for posting, and stick with these Kilbarchan folk - they're a great bunch.

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## Maybee

Thanks for replies, I don't have protective clothing or bees yet.  I have been nosey-ing about the forum reading about different clothing - There seems such a huge difference in price !   Not sure what would be a reasonable jkt/suit to buy.  Quite a big outlay initially with this bee keeping malarkey.

I've always liked bees/honey and went on a visit with KBA to a apiary about two years ago, (really enjoyed it) but was overwhelmed by the whole thing, there is so much to learn! - I had naively thought I could just stick a hive in my garden watch them, and occasionally collect some honey.

If there is any info sessions the Glasgow BA are running, I'd be happy to drive out to Scotstoun.  The KBA have emailed with details of their next out in July and I have been kindly added to their mailing list - as their meeting start up in Sept.


So now I'm at the point where I just decided to go for it.

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## gavin

Maybe one thing to add is that many beekeepers prefer to stay local for the supply of bees for various reasons.  And local bees are usually cheaper than those obtained from distant suppliers, many of whom import.  Or beg an old frame from someone and add it (with other new ones) to your National hive to see if you can attract a swarm.  There are a lot about this year.  Swarms, not National hives .. though there are a lot of those too .... or even old frames .....

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## Maybee

I've been reading about the benefits of getting local bees, and docile ones - not sure about attracting a swarm though?   The hive arrives this weekend and I still have to build it and I haven't finished my book yet (fifty years amongst the bees) and so much googling and lurking on forums to do!

Maybee

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## gavin

Did I start that post with 'Maybe'?  No pun intended!

These old books often have some great snippets, but I haven't read that one.  

http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0...0408miller.pdf

Nice to see you de-lurking!

G.

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## HJBee

Susie, personal Message me your details and I will arrange for us to meet up on the next few weeks for a coffe. / chat and a visit to one of the apiaries nearest you for a bit of a show & tell. I can arrange at least a jacket and veil & gloves, so we just need to ensure you have some wellies and appropriate trousers on.  Also next months Advertizer will have an article about our association visit and general beekeeping - you should get that in Elderslie? 

Helena

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## HJBee

> What to buy?  Oh, maybe a nucleus box (get it overwinter in a sale as if you get a nucleus stock this summer, as you shouldn't need it until next spring).  A feeder.  A box of long-cuffed thin nitrile gloves - whether or not these Kilbarchan beekeepers use 'em.  Greater sensitivity, less bee crushing, less attempts at stinging, and little chance of them getting through anyway.  You can pick up queens with them on.  But there's a long list .....
> 
> Thanks for posting, and stick with these Kilbarchan folk - they're a great bunch.


I double glove with standard leather gauntlets and thin surgical type ones, as last year the bees took a real dislike to my leather ones (to the point I was washing then weekly - hardly practical). This has worked well apart from 2 stings from accidental squashings  (touch wood). The nature of the bees I'm involved in, I would never just wear the thin gloves - I just am not that confident or hopeful!

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## gavin

Here's Gavin's tip for the day.  Give long-cuffed nitriles a try.  These thin gloves are no worse for stings getting through than leather (with or without latex on top).  I'll be insisting that all visitors wear them at the association apiary today (or go bare-handed if they prefer) and, if you like, I'll report back on how many stings got through.  Most likely none going from previous experience.  

I reckon that it is the most effective thing people can do to improve their beekeeping, to jetison their gauntlets.  The bees will not try to sting you (nearly as much!), you will handle them more sympathetically, there will be less strife between beekeeper and bees, and, with a bit of practice, you will be able to pick up individual bees (particularly the queen, obviously).  For us, the main reason originally was the risk of spreading disease, but now I'd never go back.  The apiary with the yellow painted road outside somewhere near Longforgan is a leather glove-free zone.  :Big Grin: 

If the bees locally tend to the aggressive, work towards reducing that.  Select the calmest stocks for raising new queens.  In stocks about to make (or starting to make) queen cells, give them a frame of eggs, cut through 2/3 of the way down and with every third cell opened out a little, from a calm colony (yours or someone else's) and use those Q cells in other colonies too.  Buy a couple of Apideas.  Try grafting (visit someone who does if it is daunting).

That's two tips and perhaps three.  Couldn't help myself.

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## prakel

> I haven't finished my book yet (fifty years amongst the bees) and so much googling and lurking on forums to do!
> 
> Maybee





> These old books often have some great snippets, but I haven't read that one.  
> 
> http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0...0408miller.pdf
> 
> Nice to see you de-lurking!
> 
> G.


It's an excellent book with lots of really useful 'snippets' -I posted one on Little_John's thread _'Does foundation cause disease?'_ last week (a simple solution to an issue which still seems to stress a lot of people). BUT, much as I love the book I would definitely also invest in something up to date, Gavin mentioned the usual suspects earlier to which I'd personally add Donald Sims' 'Sixty Years With Bees'.

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## Maybee

Thank you every one, feel quite welcomed, this is my first forum adventure  - it is daunting posting on a forum for the first time when you're not sure of forum etiquette etc....  so thank you all - I was just on amazon looking up sixty years with bees and there were so many dvds and books not sure what to buy as titles and reviews, make books look like a must buy.   Beginning to feel overwhelmed again :-)

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## prakel

Oh, one more thing which may divide opinion somewhat, try to take two colonies/nucs into winter because the people who feel winter losses the hardest (apart from certain bee farmers) are the ones who loose their only colony. Sure, you could lose both but with two the odds favour you. Just tap into your local knowledge and make sure that they're both strong (in the 'healthy' sense).

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## prakel

> I was just on amazon looking up sixty years with bees and there were so many dvds and books not sure what to buy as titles and reviews, make books look like a must buy.   Beginning to feel overwhelmed again :-)


Northern Bee Books Is a good place to start window shopping (usually cheaper than elsewhere too).

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## Rosie

> I reckon that it is the most effective thing people can do to improve their beekeeping, to jetison their gauntlets.  The bees will not try to sting you (nearly as much!), you will handle them more sympathetically, there will be less strife between beekeeper and bees, and, with a bit of practice, you will be able to pick up individual bees (particularly the queen, obviously).


I have to endorse Gavin's point. I start beginners off with marigolds and then encourage them to switch to nitriles and then gloveless.  If I feel afraid to inspect any of mine without gloves they get requeened. Friendly bees and gentle handing is the key to enjoying your beekeeping in my opinion.

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## snimmo243

In terms of books I read Hooper's guide to bees and honey before I took the plunge when I started out and have recently re-read it. In my opinion  it covers everything for a beginner from siting an apiary to artificial swarms and extracting honey, in fact I've got it in my piece bag on my way to work just now! I've got a bb wear full suit, which I've had for five years without any problems

Steven 

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

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## HJBee

> I have to endorse Gavin's point. I start beginners off with marigolds and then encourage them to switch to nitriles and then gloveless.  If I feel afraid to inspect any of mine without gloves they get requeened. Friendly bees and gentle handing is the key to enjoying your beekeeping in my opinion.


I may try nitriles, to test this out. I have small hands, small gloves and dexterity is not really the issue, my bees are generally well behaved, but the most important thing to me is to feel bee tight and safe and therefore confident.

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## Rosie

HJBee, I don't believe in heroics and used to go gloveless for the first half of the season until the colonies got bigger and stroppier.  Now I hardly ever resort to gloves at all and never for a normal inspection.  After a while without gloves they seem such a pain to even bother with.  When I do use gloves I use the long cuffed nitriles that Gavin recommends but object to paying for them as they are a lot dearer than normal disposables.

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## Maybee

Thanks HJbee for your bee chat today - much appreciated, going to have a look at bee suits :-)  and the Haynes bee manual.
Thinking again about not being ever stung by a bee - wondering how you go about getting a bee sting ?   (just  one  )

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## madasafish

> I have to endorse Gavin's point. I start beginners off with marigolds and then encourage them to switch to nitriles and then gloveless.  If I feel afraid to inspect any of mine without gloves they get requeened. Friendly bees and gentle handing is the key to enjoying your beekeeping in my opinion.



+1

If I am afraid to go barehanded, time for a little queen killing.. Beekeeping should be enjoyable..

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## HJBee

I don't agree, it's just to be cautious and feel protected. I think this is a personal choice, rather than right or wrong.

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## Jon

I have been helping with beginner practical classes for the past few weeks and those who do their handling in Marigolds, or better still nitriles, are much better handlers than those who wear the leather gauntlets.
Wearing leather gloves puts you at a huge disadvantage as a beekeeper and tends to rile up the bees.

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## Rosie

I agree with you to some extent HJ but I do think that there is an element of right and wrong: rubber or skin are a matter of choice but leather is always wrong.

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## Rosie

Another piece of kit that's always wrong in my opinion is the bee brush.  Bees don't mind being flicked away with the tip of a feather or something else that is light and flexible but brushing is just brutal.  Both brushes and leather gauntlets are supplied with beginners' packs and I always try to steer people well away from these packs just to avoid them.

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## Jon

Agree Steve re. the brush as well. A good shake gets 95% of the bees of a frame.

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## HJBee

I will give the nitriles a go next time I place an order.

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## Maybee

> I will give the nitriles a go next time I place an order.



Hi, Where would you order them from ?

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## snimmo243

I've worn leather from the start and as it looks like I'm now allergic will need to continue with leather

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## HJBee

Thornes, as I would be ordering other stuff at the same time, but other places will stock them, I'm sure someone will confirm the cheapest. H

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## Bumble

> I have been helping with beginner practical classes for the past few weeks and those who do their handling in Marigolds, or better still nitriles, are much better handlers than those who wear the leather gauntlets.
> Wearing leather gloves puts you at a huge disadvantage as a beekeeper and tends to rile up the bees.


I think one of the things about gauntlets is that they're often given away with suits, but most people get them too big. Leather gloves can be almost skin tight when new because they stretch.

I wear marigold nitriles, and don't plan to go gloveless at any point in the near future, not while I'm anywhere near bees that have access to moist piles of manure or foul water.

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## HJBee

> Here's Gavin's tip for the day.  Give long-cuffed nitriles a try.  These thin gloves are no worse for stings getting through than leather (with or without latex on top).
> 
> If the bees locally tend to the aggressive, work towards reducing that.


Hi Gavin

Where do you source your gloves as I see there are many available from non beekeeping suppliers (cheaper - but worried re quality)? Also std or double thickness?

My bees are generally good, so (especially right now) with work commitments and changeable West Coast Weather, I sometimes need to go in when not really best for keeper or bees. I'm looking after a few hives for friends at the moment too, a few that are sometimes not always as good natured as they should be. One of the colonies that may be more inclined to be angsty, is where my gentlest hive queen came from, in the same apiary! So I read the queen rearing threads with interest and consider the male genetics part to play. We are letting that hives drone populate the apiary this year.

H

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## Jon

A box of 100 nitriles costs about £6 on ebay from a range of suppliers.
When I wore leather gloves I got more stings than with nitriles.
A determined bee will push the sting through the leather - and they are always more determined when you wear leather gloves.

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## mbc

Aye, this is an oft overlooked aspect of hand protection/stinging.  
Most bee stings are the result of a warning shot by the bee 'catching' and causing the bee to sting for real once the barb gets caught.  The sheer surface of nitrile gloves dont offer a purchase for the casual warning shot bee to sufficiently get her sting in to engage the barb, usually resulting in her loosing interest and moving on to something more productive.  Leather, on the other hand (puts me in mind of a demonstration opportunity with a different material glove on each hand!) allows the bee to grip the material with her legs making it much more likely she'll engage her barb, sting properly, leave alarm pheromone and initiate a further stinging event.  I am a fan of bare handed beekeeping, but if they start stinging they can easily snag their barbs in my flesh, and I'm no hero, so on go the nitriles and a puff of smoke later the inspection can usually go on pain free.

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## Maybee

Bee Hive.jpg

20140517_123834.jpg

This is the hive I have ordered from Caddon Hives in Galashiels - Will mine look like this when built?   Have not ordered frames or anything else yet.  I am thinking the long cuffed nitrile gloves sound good - but this maybe this is beginners bravado, maybe once I have been stung I will change my mind but the bees getting a better grip on the leather seems to make sense - I'm still wading through all the info on this forum, beginning to feel I was a bit naive in thinking I could have a hive in my garden.  Will need to think about sites now as well as everything else - just thinking out loud really.  S

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## Mellifera Crofter

Is there a difference between latex and Nitrile gloves (apart from the fact that latex is a natural rubber and Nitrile is a synthetic rubber) as far as a beekeeper is concerned?  As far as I can see they cost about the same, except that the long-cuff Nitrile ones are about twice the price.  I've been using lightly powdered latex ones with wrist protectors to prevent the bees crawling up my sleeve.
Kitta

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## snimmo243

Hi maybee if the photo is the hive you have ordered it is a national, one thing to bear in mind is to stick to the same equipment throughout so that everything is interchangeable 

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## Rosie

Apparently some people are allergic to latex but not nitrile.  I tried latex once about 8 years ago and found they stuck to propolis and I was unable to let go of the frames.  It could have just been that particular hive but I haven't tried them since.

I suspect Jon's £6-a-100 gloves may be short cuffed.

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## Rosie

> (puts me in mind of a demonstration opportunity with a different material glove on each hand!).


The last time I wore leather was during a visit from a bee inspector.  He was wearing nitrile and my bees were as nice as pie.  He asked me to hold a frame for a minute and as soon as I took it from him hundreds of bees jumped onto my leather-gloved hands.  I don't think they stung me but they were clearly agitated.  When I gave the frame back to him they calmed down again.  The contrast was so marked that I vowed that I would never wear leather again.

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## madasafish

I started beekeeping as I intended to continue.. bare handed. I receive approx 55 stings a year (sad I know but I count).. and only wear nitriles when propolis or gentle stinging is an issue. I keep marigolds for really nasty bees- our Association apiary has a few (thousand).

I also cover the backs of my hands and wrists with Olbas Oil - the cloves put bees off..a bit:-)

I'm nearly immune to bee venom (now).

Nitriles or marigolds are useless when using gaffer tape - when I do on treebumbles in bird boxes- they are a serious pest here..

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## Jon

> A
> I suspect Jon's £6-a-100 gloves may be short cuffed.


They are short cuffed but all you need is something to close the gap between glove and wrist such as the cuffs sold various places or a wrist support thingy such as this.

$_12.JPG

Both work well with the short nitriles.

Bare handed is good, and if you lack confidence start with nucs or Apideas. A colony tends to get a bit livlier as it grows. Make sure you keep decent bees which don't go buck mad every time they are opened.
Some people keep really aggressive bees and dress up like Buzz Aldrin or a deep sea diver to do a routine colony inspection and consider this normal.

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## HJBee

I can get 100 long cuff (300mm x 2mm) at £16, or 100 (250mm x 6mm) at £16. Which shall I go for, Thickness or length - minds out of the gutter please ;0)?

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## Jon

100 short cuff for £6 and two wrist supports at a pound each!

Thinner is better in terms of your handling.

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## mbc

> They are short cuffed but all you need is something to close the gap between glove and wrist


http://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/gauntlets/

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## Jon

I have a pair of those.

Gautlests-600x600.jpg

They will last for years and save you a fortune if you buy the short cuff nitriles!

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## HJBee

> http://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/gauntlets/


Have you any experience of the suits they are selling, seem cheap?

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## gavin

> Where do you source your gloves as I see there are many available from non beekeeping suppliers


Hi H

eBay, last time 'The Modern Man' aka 'beauty-cloud', long-cuffed, £15.55. 6mm.  

As one main use is for passing round visitors to the association apiary, cuff-protectors are not cost effective.  I recommend that folk put the nitrile cuff over the thick elasticated cuff on their bee suits.

No-one was stung on the Saturday visit  :Smile:  but one beekeeper using them was stung that morning by his own bees through his gloves.  Can happen, and it has happened to me this year - although like mbc said even when the bees want to sting through them they struggle to get purchase. 

G.

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## Feckless Drone

Hi Maybee - ah Renfrewshire! What do you call someone (like me) who hails from Renfrewshire? Comments?  Re:equipment. There is so much kit out there and so much that you really don't need that its hard to know whats right. I found that apiary visits, seeing the hives and talking to experienced beekeepers was the easiest way to get good advice about what really is required. There is also the important aspect of this being your chance to handle bees. I do hope you can get into some hives soon.

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## HJBee

Thanks Gavin, going to get some and maybe 'Maybee' can help me try them out in a few weeks time!

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## EmsE

> I have been helping with beginner practical classes for the past few weeks and those who do their handling in Marigolds, or better still nitriles, are much better handlers than those who wear the leather gauntlets.
> Wearing leather gloves puts you at a huge disadvantage as a beekeeper and tends to rile up the bees.


I tried marigolds last year and the bees really didn't like them. I think it may have been the squeeking noise they make. They do seem happier with the nitrile ones though.

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## HJBee

You going to join me EmsE in the Nitrile bravery test in a few weeks??

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## EmsE

After clipping the wings of queens bare handed and surviving (particularly Richards bees) , why not.  :Smile:  I'll just make sure the antihistamine is in my bag just in case.

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## Maybee

newbie update..... my neighbour has got two hives and is getting local bees next month - so gonna be bee-tastic up our way.   :Big Grin:

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## HJBee

Good, are they going to join a local association too? H

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## Maybee

Yes he joined already,  getting his bees from them - don't know if he on this forum ?

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## Maybee

also bought my suit and gauntlets to wear over the nitrile gloves.   not sorted out frames or anything else yet.

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## HJBee

What suit did you go for? H

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## Maybee

Got the all in one with the round hat from 'simon the bee man' on ebay - had to get an XL on account of my height.   Will see what it is like quality wise - as it wasn't the most expensive suit out there :-)

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## Maybee

Many Thanks to H for the trip to see her bees - much appreciated  :-)  :Confused:

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## Maybee

20140629_221955[1].jpg20140629_222009[1].jpg 

Photos of my hive and stand in the garden - been out with H again - thanks for your time and knowledge sharing :-)

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## HJBee

Looking Good, was a busy day with lots going on. Need to start letting you go through one of the hives not intent on swarming, they should settle soon!

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## nellyp

I find thin gloves from 'justgloves.co.uk' are very well priced most less than a fiver a box and free delivery if ordered in quantity, also a good selection of all materials,vinyl nitril,vitrile & long cuff etc,etc.

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## Maybee

uploadfromtaptalk1433769041394.jpg  one year on....  and after the excellent mentoring of H -  here is a swarm i enticed into a cardboard box.

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## The Drone Ranger

> I may try nitriles, to test this out. I have small hands, small gloves and dexterity is not really the issue, my bees are generally well behaved, but the most important thing to me is to feel bee tight and safe and therefore confident.


The thin latex ones are fine they deter stings and keep the propolis off fingers
You can check whats available here
https://www.justgloves.co.uk

sorry nellyp I have just repeated what you said

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