# General beekeeping > Queen raising >  Horsley v Snelgrove

## Kate Atchley

Was there a thread on this already ... or did I see that on another forum?

Thought I'd share Horsley/Snelgrove experience with you. 

Made and used 2 Horsley boards for first time this year. They enabled successful queen replacement and the harvesting of some good queen cells for nucs. I found them very easy to use and appreciated the bees' capacity to even out their numbers and share stores most of the time, when the slide was open sufficiently for them to move between boxes.

Used 1 bought Snelgrove with less success. Got a new queen all right, but she absconded when they ran low on stores because I'd bled off too many flying bees into the lower box. Seems a big guessing game knowing when and how much of that to do. Don't want to be checking them too often either. Any advice on that? 

During the swarming fever of July, when we had lovely weather, some bees were swarming before Q cells were capped and it was almost impossible to get ahead of of them all. So I'll make more Horsley boards and next year try using them on all the stronger colonies. 

Would love to hear more on this.

Kate

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi Kate

I've only ever used Snelgrove boards 
Can't say about the absconding thing because I would only be using them during the oil seed rape.
I think it depends how much food they had to begin with 
You can give them some I think it doesn't end up in the supers
It's an easy way to stop swarming,get a new queen, get a decent workforce/honey crop, and separate the old and young bees which helps with health. 
I have never used a Horsley board but I might give that a go next year.

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## The Drone Ranger

I made up cards to keep track of the hives

Hope that its readable

I will get making the Horsley boards this winter I hope

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## Adam

the Drone Ranger: A real thumb-nail picture!

I've not used either boards. I have an old copy of Snelgrove's book and once I read it I decided not to bother! With regard to feeding, Brother Adam used to use diluted honey rather than syrup; at least this would not dilute any stores if it got into any supers.

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## The Drone Ranger

> the Drone Ranger: A real thumb-nail picture!
> 
> I've not used either boards. I have an old copy of Snelgrove's book and once I read it I decided not to bother! With regard to feeding, Brother Adam used to use diluted honey rather than syrup; at least this would not dilute any stores if it got into any supers.


Thing is Adam for people with one or two hives they can raise the best quality queen without any equipment other than the board and a spare broodbox.
The big plus over any other method is you have all the flying bees still working hard at the same time.
If your supers have drawn wax and the bottom broodbox is foundation all the honey goes in the supers
The bees make all new wax in the lower box which keeps them on better comb
The older bees and the young brood are separated which acts as disease control for acarine and nosema plus some help with varroa if the mesh is fine enough.
Swarming is controlled  during the main honey flow even if thats oil seed rape.
Later when the queen in the top hatches you are operating a double queen hive which is very strong.
After the main flow you can split the hive into two or just put the top box with the young queen on the hive stand and remove the old queen.
No matter what happens you won't be left with a queenless hive unlike a normal split.
And you never get left with a drone layer.

I have 3 copies of Snelgroves swarming book all very old 
2 copies of queen rearing 
1 of the introduction of queen bees

You get the bug and start collecting them  :Smile:

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## neilr

Is there a decent plan for making a horsley board other than the cushman site? Some materials are ambiguous.

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## neilr

Looking for louvre materials, the type of metal used for a slide and dimensions would be really handy. That way I can decide if it's cheaper to make or buy made, though I'm led to believe Stamfordham have none heft for 2012.

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## Mellifera Crofter

> Is there a decent plan for making a horsley board other than the cushman site? Some materials are ambiguous.


Bee-Craft sells a booklet 'How to use a Horsley Board for swarm control'.  I don't know if it includes information on making one.  They also published an article about it in the May 2009 issue with a good drawing and dimensions which, I think, is easier to make than the Cushman one.  I've downloaded it from their website at some stage, but I can't see it there anymore.  Send me a message if you want me to forward the pdf to you.

Kitta

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## Phil's Bees

The Demaree swarm control method can also be used for queen rearing, and only needs an extra queen excluder. See here:

http://www.twickenham-bees.org.uk/tedstip-demaree.html

However, the reason for the slide to cover the queen excluder in the Horsely board is so the newly hatched  queen, who is still very slim, cannot go down and kill the old queen, which is OK if you are wanting to replace her, but not if you want to raise a new queen for an increase. I would recommend making a Horsely board, but I know people who have used an excluder successfully.

Whatever method you use, it is essential to look in the top box three days later and remove any sealed queen cells, as these queens will have been raised from older eggs and will not be good queens.

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## Kate Atchley

I would encourage anyone who wants a Horsley board to make their own. If I can make them anyone can!! I used cut-to-size acrylic ordered online for the slide, instead of metal sheeting, as it was easier to buy and inexpensive. 

The BeeCraft booklet _How to use a Horsley Board for swarm control_ has simple instructions on constructing a Horsley board and useful advice on its use so worth buying if you want to try them. 

There are also clear photos on the BBKA site at http://www.bbka.org.uk/members/forum.php?t=5089. 

SBA have a paper on various queen rearing/swarm control methods including a Horsley board (with a rather complex slide): http://scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/Por...er5%202011.pdf. 

Have fun with it all and do keep us posted.

Kate

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## neilr

Thanks for the advice. I get beecraft and have the article I am still unsure about what size/grade of screen and what material. I obviously don't want the Virgin Queen to travel down into the bottom boxes. Cushman made his from stainless steel, others use mild steel, some plastics, and some have heat/food exchange mesh. Also there are even double ones that could be used for Twinstock. I am however determined to make my own, I am going to borrow a friend's Stamfordham one as a template.

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## neilr

After some digging around I found an informative information sheet from Practical Beekeeping not only with a nice drawing of dimensions and materials but also in it's use. Two different sets of information on use depending on whether the Queen is found or not.

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## Kate Atchley

You'll have gathered by now: I'm quite keen on Horsley boards ... and I've just bought some on eBay. They're a good deal better than my home made ones with a good-sized Qx panel. Contact Philip Hornby at <phil.hornby 'at' talktalk.net> if you're interested. He's making them from an over-supply of national crown boards and making a decent job of it. Good value too.

I'll be splitting 2nd-year-queen colonies before they swarm using the boards. Get at least one extra nuc each time, for increase or a beginner in the process.

Wonderful Spring so far out here in the west. Long may it last!

Kate

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi to all

How have the Horsley board users been getting on with them ?

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## Dark Bee

> Hi to all
> 
> How have the Horsley board users been getting on with them ?


Is it not a trifle early for these appliances to have been in use? One can of course understand them being used in Yorkshire :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Morris boards are twice as good as Horsleys :Smile:

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## The Drone Ranger

> Is it not a trifle early for these appliances to have been in use? One can of course understand them being used in Yorkshire
> Morris boards are twice as good as Horsleys


Ha ha ! 
Yes but the thread is 2 years old so a couple of seasons have gone by for testing
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-New-and-...item232ab42202
somebody on ebay selling them not too dear if you use national hives
Time to buy them if you have lost hives and want a safe split method and a new queen without losing chance of honey

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## Dark Bee

> Ha ha ! 
> Yes but the thread is 2 years old so a couple of seasons have gone by for testing
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-New-and-...item232ab42202
> somebody on ebay selling them not too dear if you use national hives
> Time to buy them if you have lost hives and want a safe split method and a new queen without losing chance of honey


I see, so you asked the question and choose the wording to be as misleading as possible?
Or perhaps you had no idea what a Horsley board is and was hoping someone would let a little information slip :Smile: . Is "the someone on E Bay" yourself, is it you that is selling them? They are not very good examples of the Horsley Board makers art.
Seriously those metal slides will not stop through traffic for very long if at all, have a look at Dave Cushmans site, there is a better example there. The Basterfield board is a simpler derivative of the Snellgrove and might be within the abilities of more people to make for themselves.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi Dark Bee
Sorry about that I didn't mean to be ambiguous
Re- Ebay seller that's not me I only have Smith hives so they wouldn't fit.
Haven't heard of Basterfield board 
I did a step by step of making a Snelgrove board
That's on the SBA website among  the hive plans etc. they are very easy
I have one Horsley board made by Stamfordham bees had it for years it looks nice (I haven't used it )
Bought on a whim to make up order for free postage  :Smile:

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## Dark Bee

> Hi Dark Bee
> Sorry about that I didn't mean to be ambiguous
> Re- Ebay seller that's not me I only have Smith hives so they wouldn't fit.
> Haven't heard of Basterfield board 
> I did a step by step of making a Snelgrove board
> That's on the SBA website among  the hive plans etc. they are very easy
> I have one Horsley board made by Stamfordham bees had it for years it looks nice (I haven't used it )
> Bought on a whim to make up order for free postage


You are not fooling me, I know you are the e Bay seller with the dodgy Horsley boards. There are some very upset Yorkshire men around now.  :Mad: 
The good Mr Basterfield, the eponymous Mr Basterfield decided that two entrances would be sufficient on a Snelgrove board (thus making himself very popular with DIY'ers - he may have intended running for parliament). One entrance is on the top  and the other is on the bottom, but on opposite edges of the board i.e. they are 18" apart on national hives.
The hive is turned 180', combs are split between the two boxes, Q. in bottom box, top entrance of board open and on the side where the original hive entrance was. By turning the board around bees can be directed into whichever box is appropiate. I've not used it so cannot speak from experience. Northern Bee Books have a booklet on it in their Nutshell series.
P.S. very impressed that you use Smith hives, Willie was a decent old stick. :Smile:

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## The Drone Ranger

Wheres the fun in that ?
Taking down the top boxes to move the board ?
No no no ~ give me the easy life, opening and shutting doors then off  down the beach for a spot of sunbathing  :Smile: 

(posted in a Tony Hancock "nearly an armful " style)

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## Kate Atchley

I used the Horsley boards for 3 or 4 splits last year with mixed success. Two worked fine ... the others dwindled and the queens scarpered or were lost.

It seems guidance on their use is generally poor and, above the board, bees need feeding throughout or at least until there are plenty of flying bees or they are opened right up to the boxes below.

The slides worked well in keeping the bees in their intended boxes.

I'll try again this year, assuming colonies ever reach maturity after such a long cold Spring.

I might also try converting one of my boards to a Morris board but again, does someone have tried-and-tested guidance on using these?

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## Dark Bee

Horsley boards; I am reasonably familiar with them. Plenty of feeding as necessary is essential to success, as indeed it is in any situation where colonies are divided.
I have no knowledge of Morris boards, but if you go to http://www.docstoc.com/docs/71463098 you may find it helpful, it's an article by Michael Badger. I think converting a Horsley board to a Morris board would be difficult, it would probably be best to start with a purpose built one. I have never seen a Morris board and would be fascinated to hear your experiences if you decide to go ahead. Have you heard of a Curry board? :Wink:

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## Kate Atchley

I see what you mean about converting a Horsley board to a Morris board ... very different! It seems these board are variously described but does anyone know of them being sold nowadays? They have quite a history it seems. BTW, the docstoc article has to be paid for to be downloaded so not as handy as I had hoped. Back to the workbench I guess, if I want to try it out.

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## Black Comb

I saved the original article from my digital edition of Beecraft (although I don't receive this anymore?)
If you pm me your email I will send it to you for free.

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## Kate Atchley

That's very kind. My email's on its way to you. 
Kate

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## Dark Bee

> ................. BTW, the docstoc article has to be paid for to be downloaded so not as handy as I had hoped.....................




I'm at a loss to understand that. I checked that it was available immediately before posting and checked again just now - there seems to be no problem here. ( just recalled a joke re the Reverend Ian Paisley and the Pope - I'll leave it rest :Mad: )
If there are problems feel free to ask - I have the gist of how to make it now, how to use it, is of course a different matter :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## RDMW

This is a useful thread.  I am planning to make three horsley boards.  What's the best way to secure the slide?  Do you have a link to the place you got the Perspex cut?

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## RDMW

Hi Kitta, do you still have the PDF for the horsley board, and if so could you send me a copy? Thank you

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## Mellifera Crofter

A link to the article is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0z8ed1bzgk...board.pdf?dl=0

I'm using my phone, so if the link is a dud, let me know.

Kitta

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## Mellifera Crofter

I've just tried to open it, and it did not work. I'll try again tomorrow evening (or send me a message with your email address).
Kitta

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## The Drone Ranger

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4...mZfSHFtN2hqSk0
might work

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## Mellifera Crofter

Thanks John. That link works! And RDMW has a copy by now.

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