# General beekeeping > Starting out >  Super for a nuc ..... Yes or No

## drdoug

I have made a 14x12 6 frame nuc ready for next season. 

My question is, should I make a super for it or would it be a waste of time ? 
image.jpg


Thanks 

Drdoug

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

That's a nice nucleus, Doug.  My opinion: a second brood box (like the Paynes poly nucleuses or Modern Beekeeping's Beebox Langstroth nucleuses) is a good idea and will give you flexibility to expand the colony, particularly when you're short of full-size hives - but no, I don't think you should bother with shallows.  I think it's better to concentrate on getting the colony stronger, rather than asking them to collect honey.
Kitta

PS - I assume that you meant shallows when you said 'supers'?

----------


## drdoug

Yes by super I mean a shallow box. 

I agree with you but think I might just make some more nucs to use for build up prior to transfer to my full size poly hives.

----------


## prakel

A shallow can be a handy thing if you're looking for increase and planning to overwinter the nuclei. A nucleus which goes through the winter with a shallow on top, that the queen has free access to, will have brood in both boxes before a double 14x12 does simply because she'll want to lay at the top but the shallow won't be deep enough to contain her. 

Used the principle on and off for quite a while now, just needs some off the wall thinking.

Another thing, if it was me I'd be considering using commercial shallows (16x6) rather than those silly bs ones but that's just my own personal preference.

----------


## Pete L

I would make the entrance near the bottom, so they can easier remove dead bees, ect.

----------


## Adam

I have a bunch of 5 frame nucs and did make a super a few years back. Haven't used it for a few years. The last time I used it was when I put it under the 5 frames of brood for winter stores. So in my experience it's not likely to be used. OK for a feeder eke though. I agree with the entrance at the bottom.

----------


## fatshark

I have a few 5 frame supers. They've been most used on their sides with my honey bucket tipper on when jarring honey. I suspect you'd get as much or more use from an eke - as Adam says, for feeding _etc_ - and devote some effort to making a few more nucs which you can rarely have too many of.

----------


## drdoug

Thanks for the replies. 

I will concentrate on making more nucs, maybe with the entrance at the bottom. Wanted one nuc to us a entrance disc on .

Drdoug

----------


## Jon

Paynes recently brought out a super and a brood extension for their polynuc.
I think both of these will prove very useful in certain circumstances, ie good way to add a bit of temporary space and delay any thoughts of swarming before the contents get transferred to a full size box.

poly-nuc-extension.jpg

----------


## prakel

Agree with Jon re the adding of temporary space -an efficient way to stop a nuc from getting blocked up with nectar -keep the nest open for laying. I see that Maisemore have gone a step further with their poly nucs and included a made to measure queen excluder in the parts list. 

I certainly wouldn't dismiss an idea without trying it for myself; worst case scenario is that you end up with a shallow mating nuc; rarely any need to have well made boxes sidelined for years on end.

----------


## mbc

> Paynes recently brought out a super and a brood extension for their polynuc.
> I think both of these will prove very useful in certain circumstances, ie good way to add a bit of temporary space and delay any thoughts of swarming before the contents get transferred to a full size box.
> 
> Attachment 2495


I'm more of the opinion that it would be more efficient to move them into a full sized box than adding height to a narrow unit, making it unstable, also having another lot of equipment just for nuc expansion  when a six frame nuc when full is ready to explode into full size equipment already in stock with no need for specialist queen excluders or supers.
I have met beekeepers who use 8 frame equipment exclusively mind, and they seemed to do quite well, if a little labour intensive to hold them from swarming.

----------


## prakel

> I'm more of the opinion that it would be more efficient to move them into a full sized box than adding height to a narrow unit, making it unstable, also having another lot of equipment just for nuc expansion  when a six frame nuc when full is ready to explode into full size equipment already in stock with no need for specialist queen excluders or supers.
> I have met beekeepers who use 8 frame equipment exclusively mind, and they seemed to do quite well, if a little labour intensive to hold them from swarming.


A lot depends on what the long term plan is for the nuc, if it's queen rearing rather than an interim box for making colony increase then I reckon that there's plenty of scope for a shallow on top of a 14x12. I think that there could be some useful experience gleaned from having a go and as the op is plainly quite capable of building the gear himself I don't see much material loss as he can later add an extension to make a full depth box or, as earlier, keep it as a mating nuc. I can remember one of my uncles using nothing but bs shallows for queen mating when I was growing up. They seemed to work well in his hands. If the idea is just to make increase then I wouldn't even bother with a nuc box. They'd be straight in a full size body.

----------


## Adam

> I have met beekeepers who use 8 frame equipment exclusively mind, and they seemed to do quite well, if a little labour intensive to hold them from swarming.


I made a few 8 frame brood boxes and supers as an experiment. An 8 frame box is a good overwintering size for a strong nuc. However the problem is that you finish up with a very high bee hive as they grow - 3 brood boxes and 1/2 dozen supers means you need a box to stand on the get the crown-board off! Inspections also take time too. Apart from that it's effective enough for the bees and it's easy to cut down a plastic queen excluder to fit. I was thinking of running as a Warre - by putting empty boxes underneath as the colony grows but decided not to in the end - maybe next year.

Would I make any more? No.

----------


## Calum

> I have made a 14x12 6 frame nuc ready for next season. 
> My question is, should I make a super for it or would it be a waste of time ? 
> Thanks 
> Drdoug


Hi 
yes make a super (assuming a super is 1:1 frame size as nuc), overwinter with the super on.
We do that with about 40 6 frame nucs now.
In end of april when they are full, we sell the colonies as 10 framers, and retain 2 frames with suitable brood and enough bees per nuc to "reboot" the colony. We replace the queen, if she isnt f1 or satisfactory in August. 
- a great way to "spawn" new / replacement / backup colonies.. They need less (if any) winter feed and less medication - very handy to transport (at least without the super)
If you are limited for space they are really efficient!
br
Calum

----------

