# General beekeeping > Everything and anything >  Dangers of Double brood box.

## Greengage

I had a very strong hive coming out of Winter, I could not locate the queen but I went ahead  and added a second brood box on April 22nd, I put in new frames and foundation on 28th April they had drawn 5 frames in the top box, I continued feeding heavily to encourage them, Still no sign of the Queen but by the 5th May she was in the top brood box laying well still no sign of her, this was getting dodgy. But I kept going by the 17th of May I decided I had better locate her so placed a queen excluder between the two boxs and couple of days later confirmed she was now isolated in the top box and going strong, On 20th May I now had 24 frames in both boxs the bottom box had 5 frames of sealed brood and one unsealed QC and 7 frames of stores while the top box had 8 frames of brood two of stores and two frames full drawn, I had planned on Splitting the hive on 24rd but at 2.45pm a huge swarm issued from the hive as I was observing it, this is not good, anyway they landed very close by which I thought strange and they were on the ground, 30 minutes later they  returned to the hive and things seemed to settle down, so I left well enough alone. (Reason I had to reopen a walled garden due to tour)
it appears the queen was trapped in the top boox and could not leave with the swarm so I got back in early the following day, Found the Queen (Dont know how just lucky so many bees) placed her in a Nuc, split the hive into two seperate brood boxes with sealed queen cells, and removed two Nucs from it and a sealed queen cell for an Apidea. Lesson here dont go messing with huge numbers of bees in public area.

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## Adam

When I move bees to a double brood box I place some brood in the top box above the brood that remains in the lower one. Hopefully I will have some drawn comb to surround the brood area, the rest is foundation if that's all I've got. The idea of my system is that the colony feels less congested (in my view) and they can expand the brood-nest as they see fit after that. Old grotty comb, if left at the outside of the lower brood box tends to be ignored or emprtied of stores unless the colony is a big one - so this place is a good spot for clearing old comb before disposal.

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## Duncan

So you are selecting for the swarming trait - well done!  The cycle will be repeated again next spring.

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## The Drone Ranger

> So you are selecting for the swarming trait - well done!  The cycle will be repeated again next spring.


In fairness it was a big colony so always a possibility of a swarm but by the sound of things pretty good bees for the rape 


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## Greengage

> So you are selecting for the swarming trait - well done!  The cycle will be repeated again next spring.


How do you make this out?

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## Duncan

Try and figure it out for yourself.
The use of cells resulting from the swarming impulse is junk beekeeping from junk bees by irresponsible and inconsiderate beekeepers.  This error in judgement has been mentioned as the SOP on this forum several times recently.  By using swarm cells you are selecting your bees to have a highly developed swarming instinct which will get worse year by year.  Furthermore the numerous drones produced by these colonies will mate with other colonies in the area and they too will develop a high swarming index.  All this undermines and with open mated queens degenerates the decades of selection and breeding of bees being used by other beekeepers.  We often see fingers being pointed at other sourced bees as the root of all bee problems when in actual fact the problem is in your own backyard.

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## Greengage

Well holy smoke,Your so knowledgeable, How would I know if it was an impulse swarm or a natural swarm, or is there a differance "All this undermines and with open mated queens degenerates the decades of selection and breeding of bees being used by other beekeepers" are there many of these people around and where do I find them, I take it there all in universities studying Swarm control, genetics and such stuff, would I be better getting one of the Apparatus that inseminates queens and buy them in from Italy or there was a fellow on facebook getting them from Argentina, that would be different genetics. PS whats a SOP I put it in the search and nothing came up.

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## Duncan

Might be a good idea to go to night school and do a course in English with emphasis in spelling and capital letter use, follow that up with a good course in actual beekeeping management.  In addition you should go and work for a commercial beekeeper for a season or two.

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## Feckless Drone

> Might be a good idea to go to night school and do a course in English with emphasis in spelling and capital letter use, follow that up with a good course in actual beekeeping management.


Ah, Duncan, Duncan, Duncan! These comments are not really very helpful. There is an old Scottish saying - if you cannot be kind be quiet. 

Not really, I made that up but I think it might be, one day.

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## gavin

Just to be clear, 'Duncan' isn't his real name and there isn't anything Scottish about him.  His comments are wrong and totally out of order.  Interesting, though, to see a prominent Buckfast exporter so rude on a forum.  Sorry, GG, but if he keeps this up he'll be history.

Just to be clear, there are some excellent bee breeders in Ireland and low swarminess is one of the criteria they use.  Anyone raising bees from native Irish stock in much of Ireland through the natural swarming impulse will raise quite nice bees but if there is no selection taking place then swarminess may rise over time.  However there are many breeding groups in Ireland using and propagating selected stock so if you can access that then your bees will be improved.  Locally the swarminess of stocks did take a turn for the worse when carniolans became part of the mix.  I think that once there is a lot of swarminess locally then over the years breeding from the more vigorous and swarmy stocks will just make things worse.

From personal experience in the last couple of years - including yesterday - I can say that it is a big mistake to use imported Buckfast in Amm or near-Amm areas.  Most of my colonies are Amm or near-Amm and the worst few colonies (and they are awful, really hard to manage) are those headed by queens that crossed with Buckfast.  In two of my apiaries and at the association apiary you can see this correlation between bad temper and Buckfast crosses.  I made a mental note yesterday to try to look out for the colour of actual bee attacking to see if it is the hybridised individuals bent on destruction.

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## Mellifera Crofter

The problem is (for me, anyway) that when my first colonies want to swarm I take care of them and do artificial swarms - but I don't yet have good queens from the colonies I want to breed from to replace the queen cells in the swarmy daughter hives.

It's like this every year - and this year, despite my best intentions, all this cold weather did not help to get me ready and prepared for the early swarmers either.  (Perhaps I'm just a slow learner in some ways.)

Kitta

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## Greengage

Ahh dont mind him I was only winding him up, But decided to stay quiet to see what would happen, As for the bees I have received loads of good advice from some of the top bee-keepers in Ireland and know some of them  first name terms having studied with them. except Jon who I will make it my business to introduce myself to when we  cross paths. The bees are fine and come from very good stock one of the chaps who visited was impressed with them and since the Queen is from a different part of the country New queens bred by me will mate with locally drones no way related to my stock. So exciting times ahead, I was never great with the spelling BEE. Thanks.

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## The Drone Ranger

Elsewhere on the forum there was some research concerning royal lines or larva that the bees preferentially choose to raise queen cells from

Now emergency cells might be raised from less ideal material but swarm cells most certainly won't be

By contrast if we are grafting we are taking larva that the bees themselves probably wouldn't choose

Logically that might mean you are less likely to get a daughter that is going to mirror the mother queen traits

Instinctively you or I might be inclined to disagree with this hypothesis but it is also a mechanism which might explain why local Amm populations can both survive and indeed be created within a hybridised area

Being rude sometimes betrays a lack of real insight 

I think a propensity to swarming does exist but even without that. when a hive reaches a peak population, there is an inbuilt swarming imperative which needs beekeeper intervention
I'm pretty sure the old non swarming Amm argument only applies to good strains of those bees and there will be plenty swarming going on all be it a bit later in the season

Anyway GG I would be happy with a daughter queen from your hive they sound like they could bring in some honey which after all is the name of the game 


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## Duncan

Wasn't being rude at all - just stating the obvious and suggesting how the poster could improve him/herself. 

If you wish to use swarm cells in your nucs - go ahead, don't let my comments put you off.  
I look forward to reading about your antics with swarming bees in the future on this fine forum.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Wasn't being rude at all - just stating the obvious and suggesting how the poster could improve him/herself. 
> 
> If you wish to use swarm cells in your nucs - go ahead, don't let my comments put you off.  
> I look forward to reading about your antics with swarming bees in the future on this fine forum.


Texting and emails are more likely to be misinterpreted than other communications Duncan
It's a fair enough point but it might not be as clear cut as it first appears
If you had a small or average size colony which attempts to swarm itself out with prime swarm followed by several casts etc that would be an issue
When a large colony gets ready for swarming that's something else 

There are bees that have better than average performance in swarming tolerance, hygenic behaviour, temper etc
I believe that's not confined to one sub group  i.e. Buckfast, Amm ,Carniolan whatever but can be found in strains within those sub groups

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## mbc

No one has ever, to my knowledge, produced honey bees which dont ever swarm, ipso facto, the very best, non swarmy bees will produce swarm cells occasionally.  To consider these cells inferior to those grafted from selected stock is a messy mix of ignorance, arrogance and a poor grasp of bee genetics.
I know quite a few (well, perhaps a handful) of beefarmers who raise their own queens by grafting, not one will turn their nose up at harvesting good swarm cells or pulled virgins when the occasion arises.
I dont have any knowledge of any magic superbees, and if anyones trying to claim theirs are, they've either come up with something the very best institutes and breeding programmes worldwide have so far failed to do, congratulations! otherwise, they're full of BS

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## Duncan

Thank you for your opinion.  BS is the prerogative of AMM enthusiasts and Co.  As beekeepers progress from beginners and gain more experience they come to realise  some of the things they try to brainwash newcomers with is just a load of rubbish.

Your commercial beekeepers must leave a lot to be desired if they are able to graft but use swarm cells if found.  Just because they are professional beekeepers doesn't mean that they don't make management mistakes.  For me the use of such cells is, a SERIOUS error - for reasons that I have posted previously.

Swarming in our colonies is almost non-existent, we would not be able to operate the way we do if it were otherwise.  We have honey production colonies in apiaries scattered across several hundred square kilometers.  It is impossible to do inspections for swarm control and the truth is there is no need for such inspections.  We cannot be worrying about colonies swarming when we have other much more important things to do, such as queen production.

We produce 400-600 queen cells per week from early March till late June - for our own use and for selling to other beekeepers, as we are unable to satisfy the demand for mated queens.  All the mated queens are exported and local beekeepers get supplied with 10 day old queen cells grafted from II breeders.  Every morning they come to the meeting point and pick them up.  The production of these cells requires a number of cell builders - these have huge populations of bees, being boosted by the addition frames of sealed brood. Believe me these colonies are at bursting point with the number of bees in them and they are fed syrup daily.  It would be a disaster and an impossible situation if the bees in these colonies swarmed.  So, yes it is possible to have large colonies without swarming.  Darn, just exposed another beekeeping myth!

If anyone has any doubt at all about the qualities of our bees, best thing to do is to get a plane to Cyprus, come, see and judge for yourself and not comment about something they know very little about.

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## mbc

Sounds like they're good for Cyprus.

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## Duncan

As well as Scotland, Wales, England........Ireland, even Finland and Sweden among the users.

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## Greengage

http://www.superbee-cy.com/

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## prakel

> If you had a small or average size colony which attempts to swarm itself out with prime swarm followed by several casts etc that would be an issue
> When a large colony gets ready for swarming that's something else


Reading back through the op it doesn't actually look like the colony in question was particularly large. OK, a single queen must have been laying at an eye watering rate if those 13 combs were solid brood... However it seems as if the real trigger here may have been the extensive feeding combined with injudicious use of the queen excluder; failing that, then they probably went way too soon. Either way, we don't know for sure so as a default Duncan's reasoning is sound.

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## GRIZZLY

Would you use superceedure cells Duncan ??

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## Duncan

I suppose it also depends on the type of hive in use.  We use langstroths, a single brood chamber with ten frames and a queen excluder most of the time.  This large enough for our bees.  The maximum egg laying rate is about 1500 eggs per day, which equals five full frames of brood.  This might be spread over the eight to ten frames of the broodchamber.  The bees rarely swarm and when they do we know which line they came from, it is scrubbed from the breeding program and all sister queens are changed as soon as possible.
There is an acute swarming problem in Greece with unselected bees, John Phipps -  editor of the BKQ, has written several times in the BKQ about the problem.  Give them as many frames as you like: 20, 30, 40 - as soon as the population reaches the seven to eight frame size they go into swarm mode.  Imagine what happens when 1,5 million colonies swarm.  It happens most years just at the time when the bees should be collecting the spring crop.  The colonies don't have any emerging brood for up to about 6 weeks and this in turn does a lot to reduce the summer crop.  See how expensive swarming can be!  Few beekeepers realise the cost.

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## prakel

There seems to be a lot of confusion with regards to how many bees make up a colony, Duncan's description of their bees is in line with the figures suggested by Jamie Ellis who's starting to research colony size (mentioned in the question/answer section of one of his NHS talks). Oddly a lot of people have colonies far larger than one queen could ever realistically support.

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## Duncan

Longevity also plays a role.  The light yellow Italian type bees are very prolific but also quite short-lived.  Anatoliaca have a long life span and the same probably applies to the AMM group.

Some colonies have 2 queens.

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## prakel

> Longevity also plays a role.  The light yellow Italian type bees are very prolific but also quite short-lived.  Anatoliaca have a long life span and the same probably applies to the AMM group.


Out of interest, am I right to think you're saying that colony size can be positively incresed in the case of longer lived bees? My instinct would have been to assume that the two extremes would probably result in an overall levelling so that the average colony sizes would be similar between prolific short lived bees and less prolific longer lived ones. I do realise that this is a very simplistic way of looking at a complex issue but it's potentially also a very interesting subject which is worth a deeper look.

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## Duncan

There is obviously a point at which die-off reaches an equilibrium with hatch and may even exceed it.  Sometimes we see that the adult bee population in a hive is not justified by the amount of brood.  I suppose it depends on the time of season and what happened in the previous 3 months.  We see that some of the anatoliaca Buckfast lines just build-up from nothing in mid-spring, having given the impression that they aren't going to do much 4 weeks earlier.  There are 3 frames with brood and then suddenly there are 8 within 2 weeks. When traveling around in Greece I sometimes see large populations of bees in mid-spring with a relatively small amount of brood.  My thoughts are that it is all down to longevity, but I'm not there later to see what happens - they probably swarm anyway.

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## mbc

> The bees rarely swarm.


Nor do mine, in their first full season, and rarely in their second. When they do get passed the first flush of youth they do tend to swarm, but the drones they've produced are in line with local drone population which in turn will hopefully provide beneficial mating to the virgins they leave behind. A sustainable vision without the need for continual outside inputs that doesn't pollute the airspace for others.

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## Duncan

Jolly good for you MBC.  

Information from a RBI contact is that the AMM colonies are dropping like flies and Buckfast has a much better resistance to CBPV.  

You may still get your wish to stop all imports when the vote goes for a BREXIT.  So maybe the 2016 queens will be the last ones imported from the EU.

 Sometimes, however, you have to think carefully about what you wish for.

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## fatshark

> Information from a RBI contact is that the AMM colonies are dropping like flies and Buckfast has a much better resistance to CBPV.


Presumably this is descriptive observation rather than actual testing? _i.e._ CBPV has been observed adversely affecting AMM colonies, but not Buckfasts? Is it known whether the latter were exposed? Maintained using the same beekeeping practices? Have the same history of _Varroa_ control? Forage? Climate?

I'm not saying that there aren't differences in susceptibility to pathogens, just that describing what is seen is often only half the story.

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## Jon

A classic case of Schrodinger's Amm - dropping like flies to CBPV while at the same time not actually existing having been wiped out by IoW disease!

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## gavin

> Information from a RBI contact is that the AMM colonies are dropping like flies and Buckfast has a much better resistance to CBPV.


Facts, dear boy, facts.  Trumps (oh dear, I'll have to stop using that word) anecdote every time.

The Bee Farmers Association ran a survey of members that covered 20,000 hives.  There was very little difference between types of bee in the level of infection with CBPV although 'the own stock and _mellifera_ members had a slightly lower rate of infection'.  

Bear in mind that 'slightly' in this context means unlikely to be statistically significant.

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## Adam

If you have a colony that swarms (too) early, remove all the queencells and wait until it cannot produce any more. Then introduce eggs/small larvae from another colony for a queen to be made from that. (Miller method for example).

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## Adam

> A classic case of Schrodinger's Amm - dropping like flies to CBPV while at the same time not actually existing having been wiped out by IoW disease!


 :Smile:   :Smile:

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## madasafish

> Jolly good for you MBC.  
> 
> Information from a RBI contact is that the AMM colonies are dropping like flies and Buckfast has a much better resistance to CBPV.  
> 
> You may still get your wish to stop all imports when the vote goes for a BREXIT.  So maybe the 2016 queens will be the last ones imported from the EU.
> 
>  Sometimes, however, you have to think carefully about what you wish for.


Spring queens will be at a premium if imports are banned... My forays into queen rearing are nicely timed then.  A few small  nucs overwintered and £100 a queen will do nicely :-)  Would beat selling honey...

Of course, new beekeepers are then likely to reduce in numbers rather rapidly  :-(

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## prakel

> Spring queens will be at a premium if imports are banned... My forays into queen rearing are nicely timed then.  A few small  nucs overwintered and £100 a queen will do nicely :-)  Would beat selling honey...
> 
> *Of course, new beekeepers are then likely to reduce in numbers rather rapidly  :-(*


I bet they they will, based on what you've written recently about the unnecessary number of stings you receive during normal management  :Smile:

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## Kate Atchley

> I had a very strong hive coming out of Winter ....On 20th May I now had 24 frames in both boxs the bottom box had 5 frames of sealed brood and one unsealed QC and 7 frames of stores while the top box had 8 frames of brood two of stores and two frames full drawn...
> it appears the queen was trapped in the top boox and could not leave with the swarm ...


Fascinating! I was struck by the fact that only 1 QC was being drawn in the lower box. I wonder where on the frame it was ... on an edge or further in ... though indeed the bees may not have had much choice with the queen upstairs.

So was this a swarm cell or did they have emergency cell building in mind because the queen was nowhere nearby?

Also, with that many frames of stores in the bottom brood box (7), it seems the bees could have done with more space sooner, Greengage. In which case, their cell building is not necessarily indicative of a "swarm" colony. Squeeze the brood nest of any strong colony and cells will result.

Good luck!

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## madasafish

> I bet they they will, based on what you've written recently about the unnecessary number of stings you receive during normal management


I beekeep with bare hands. Bees think I mean Bear hands and respond accordingly:-)

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## Greengage

> Fascinating! I was struck by the fact that only 1 QC was being drawn in the lower box. I wonder where on the frame it was ... on an edge or further in ... though indeed the bees may not have had much choice with the queen upstairs.
> 
> So was this a swarm cell or did they have emergency cell building in mind because the queen was nowhere nearby?
> 
> Also, with that many frames of stores in the bottom brood box (7), it seems the bees could have done with more space sooner, Greengage. In which case, their cell building is not necessarily indicative of a "swarm" colony. Squeeze the brood nest of any strong colony and cells will result.
> 
> Good luck!


Hi just to give you an update all has settled down, I removed the top box without the queen added a queen cell from another box and gave it to a friend, all has setled there no problems. The old queen was removed to a Nuc unfortunatly she died last week dont know but found her lying dead in bottom of Nuc, but there is a sealed queen cel there so all looks ok. As for the other half of the double brood box it now has a lying queen and everything grand there. I set up an apidea with a sealed Queen cell I was given but it never emerged after 12 days sealed so I opened it and it appears to have died in cell before fully developed dont know what happened there either but suspect it is a bit like getting fertile chicken eggs from some suppliers it got shaken along the line. Not to worry its all a learning experience. Oh most successful thing that happened I made an observation hive brought it to local school and work it was a huge success, Kids and teachers really enjoyed the experience, and I nearly never got out of work everyone wanting to see what goes on inside a hive, looks like I will be back for heritage week later in season If I can organise it.

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## Kate Atchley

> Hi just to give you an update all has settled down, I removed the top box without the queen added a queen cell from another box and gave it to a friend, all has setled there no problems. The old queen was removed to a Nuc unfortunatly she died last week dont know but found her lying dead in bottom of Nuc, but there is a sealed queen cel there so all looks ok. As for the other half of the double brood box it now has a lying queen and everything grand there. I set up an apidea with a sealed Queen cell I was given but it never emerged after 12 days sealed so I opened it and it appears to have died in cell before fully developed dont know what happened there either but suspect it is a bit like getting fertile chicken eggs from some suppliers it got shaken along the line. Not to worry its all a learning experience. Oh most successful thing that happened I made an observation hive brought it to local school and work it was a huge success, Kids and teachers really enjoyed the experience, and I nearly never got out of work everyone wanting to see what goes on inside a hive, looks like I will be back for heritage week later in season If I can organise it.


"All good" as they say (apart from queen dying ... yet she left a successor so maybe okay). And great to be showing the kids the bees and building enthusiasm in the next generation. Hope all goes well with that and your bees. The learning seems never to stop ... and I've been doing this for a good many years!

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## The Drone Ranger

> I beekeep with bare hands. Bees think I mean Bear hands and respond accordingly:-)


There are real stings and half-hearted prods
In an unprotected foray through my friends hives I got stung once in the upper eye and once on the underside of the nose
That taught me a lesson 
Although like hangovers I always say that but pretty soon forget
Anyway driving home looking like a cross between Jimmy Durante and Captain Pugwash I was able to reflect on the difference between a pin prick through a thin medical glove (no laughing at the back) and a true bee-sting 
 


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## Duncan

What are gloves?  :Smile:

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## madasafish

> What are gloves?


The things that wimps wear.. :Cool: 


I have been stung this year on the ear, nose and between the eyes. Painful but my venom tolerance is high so no ill effects after an hour at most. The nose was the septum. I cried. Fortunately I have tetanus antibodies in my system #  from injections 20 years ago so stings implanted under the skin do no harm.

# Discovered last year in a lengthy stay in A&E.

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## The Drone Ranger

the thin medical gloves have a lot to recommend them though
no propolis fingers
no honey coated hands
good for hygiene going between hives
If the bees do sting its tiny you can scrape them off and they fly away unharmed
I have apis mellifera cross bees which I hope to brand as AMX
I just need an unpronounceable symbol, something like heiroglyph.jpeg 
It worked for Prince (actually not sure it did )

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## Duncan

The only reason I would wear gloves (nitrile) is to protect myself from the residues from treatments for Varroa and maybe when it is cold.

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## The Drone Ranger

> The only reason I would wear gloves (nitrile) is to protect myself from the residues from treatments for Varroa and maybe when it is cold.


I always find nitrile ones a bit stiff Duncan
I like the thin latex ones though
Weather here is poor bet your basking in the sun  


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## greengumbo

> I always find nitrile ones a bit stiff Duncan
> I like the thin latex ones though
> Weather here is poor bet your basking in the sun  
> 
> 
> Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk


I have two hives desperately needing re-queened that would tear nitriles to shreds. My gloves look like pin cushions when I go and look in them.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi GG
I'm not brave enough for no gloves even on a nice sunny day when they are very unlikely to sting
Unfortunately in the weather we are having  even checking my queen raiser (queenless) needs care
Hope you have some queens in the pipeline to replace the grumpy ones  :Smile: 



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## Jon

GG They sting into leather but tend to ignore nitriles. Good practice to wear nitriles in terms of hygiene.

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## Duncan

I'm at our mountain mating station - so haven't got time to reply in full, but over the weekend temps will be around 36C here and up to 44C over central Greece!

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## alancooper

GG - the thin blue nitriles have an inert texture and smell - they seem not to be recognised as a biological threat by bees. A bonus if that you can feel the bees through the nitrile. I converted from kid leather three years ago and the difference in sting numbers has gone down markedly - now mainly when I have trapped a bee between glove and hive tool or frame.

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## greengumbo

> GG They sting into leather but tend to ignore nitriles. Good practice to wear nitriles in terms of hygiene.


I usually switch to nitriles at this time of year anyway but those two crazy hives have me a bit apprehensive. I've been washing my leather ones a lot recently to remove residual alarm pheremone !

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## fatshark

Are you still using that aftershave that smells of bananas GG?

Just saying'  :Wink:

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## greengumbo

> Are you still using that aftershave that smells of bananas GG?
> 
> Just saying'


eaux de gorilla ?

(I was going to paste Lee Macks "French Perfume" sketch here but its a bit sweary for you sensitive Eastern Fifers!)

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## The Drone Ranger

> I usually switch to nitriles at this time of year anyway but those two crazy hives have me a bit apprehensive. I've been washing my leather ones a lot recently to remove residual alarm pheremone !


Leather gets stung loads more than the latex ones 
they dont seem to get a hold even if they want to
You can feel them prepping up for a jab and just move them away
 No washing just slip another pair on

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## mbc

> Leather gets stung loads more than the latex ones 
> they dont seem to get a hold even if they want to
> You can feel them prepping up for a jab and just move them away
>  No washing just slip another pair on


Aye, the thing is, many stings occur after just a casual "bump" if the bee snags her barb, a slick surface      can avoid this.

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## GRIZZLY

Try no gloves and heavily smoked hands  -  works  for me every time.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Try no gloves and heavily smoked hands  -  works  for me every time.


Off to buy some woodbine for a more permanent protection  :Smile: 
For the younger beekeepers who haven't heard of those fags here's an amusing informative link
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Woodbines

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## GRIZZLY

Those were the days my friend.Very popular amongst the proletairiat.

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## madasafish

> Try no gloves and heavily smoked hands  -  works  for me every time.


Avon Skin So Soft does repel bees (used by the Army to deter Scottish midges I believe.) I try to be very careful but my limits are around 6 stings /day. Then nitriles. They can still sting through them but it's less painful. Then marigolds. Then marigolds covered with nitriles. The latter is virtually sting proof. But a little clumsy.

I eventually requeened the hive which required marigolds and nitriles.. Not before my YTD count reached 100..

There was a hive at our Association Apiary - at the furthest end from the entrance. I have never worked them.. but they used to find me and sting me wherever I was - and burrow up my sleeves - or try to. Last time stung between the eyes before I suited up. Must be my body odour/pheremones- others are far less afflicted. It's good entertainment...(No aftershave or smellies but my arms are very hairy)

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## The Drone Ranger

> Those were the days my friend.Very popular amongst the proletairiat.


Try fending them off with an electronic cig 😂

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi madasafish 
My friend had a few hives on a fruit farm and one of them took a severe dislike to me 
They weren't that friendly even with her but with me I had to drive away in a beesuit and get about 100 yards away before taking it off
They got moved off there and went into a more urban location and their attitude completely changed even to me  :Smile: 

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## Sean A

> " if you cannot be kind be quiet. "


 I like that a lot! 
But it would cut out quite a bit of the posts on these sites.
I just hunker down and cringe at my fellow man!
Apologies for any abuse of punctuation.

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## madasafish

> I like that a lot! 
> But it would cut out quite a bit of the posts on these sites.
> I just hunker down and cringe at my fellow man!
> Apologies for any abuse of punctuation.


Man?  :-)

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## prakel

> But it would cut out quite a bit of the posts on these sites.
> I just hunker down and cringe at my fellow man!


Really?  :Smile: 

I think you may have accidently posted that comment on the wrong site. At least, I doubt that 'quite a bit' would be lost from this forum if everyone started being (even) nicer to each other.

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## Jon

Very rare to encounter bad or unhelpful behaviour on this site.
Other beekeeping sites are available if you want to be boorish.

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