# General beekeeping > Bee blether >  Poly hive queen excluders and varroa floors

## alancooper

I have been using a couple of poly hives for two years with a view to replacing my cedar nationals. Overall I have been very satisfied. But I have now replaced the flat plastic Qx (due to propolis and bee squashing) with ordinary wood-rimmed metal excluders with a bee-space. Thinking also that poly mesh floors are  hardly needed (small mesh area, vape singe and snug-fitting varroa trays. Also minor rain leakage between boxes (vaseline is a faff). Has anyone else started to hybridise parts - or bought just poly boxes roofs?

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## Feckless Drone

It depends on which poly-hive you use. Mix and match with P%4f&s or Mo£$&5 Bee££$%(Ig types will cause issues. The Swie$%y Nationals are compatible with wood, Snelgrove boards, heavy roofs at the heather etc.

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## fatshark

I do ... custom (badly) built floors, Swienty broods, DIY-(badly, again)-wooden-framed QE's and any type of super I can lay my hands on (other than Mo£$&5 Bee££$% which I suspect is Modern Beekeeping (_has FD been drinking?_), as they have the dreaded bee-slaughtering 'lip'). badly-built wood and perspex crownboards, or a sheet of plastic, a lump of Kingspan and a roof (either 'standard') or Correx.

I don't use vaseline for anything. 

I've just invested in a load of Abelo poly hives and now have the problem of vaporising them ... My vaporiser is one of the 'active' Sublimox models. I don't fancy doing this through the entrance or the mesh as there's a greater than even chance of me melting big holes in the poly. Instead I'm going to lift the brood box the day before, slip in shallow eke and treat through a hole in the side of that.

Swienty and Abelo appear truly compatible with cedar ... though there might be some issues wth stacked Swienty broods (they don't have a rebate in the bottom edge for frame lugs).

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## James O

> My vaporiser is one of the 'active' Sublimox models. I don't fancy doing this through the entrance or the mesh as there's a greater than even chance of me melting big holes in the poly. Instead I'm going to lift the brood box the day before, slip in shallow eke and treat through a hole in the side of that.


Why not use an eke on top of the brood box? Easier to install and remove surely. I was hoping to use a couple of ekes above brood boxes to treat apiaries with ~10 hives. The plan was to treat the 1st hive, then prepare and treat the 2nd hive for treatment whilst the OA vapour settles in the 1st and then move onto the 3rd etc.
Is the delivery of OA vapour significantly poorer from above than it is from below?

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## fatshark

In fairness, not tried properly ... I will.
Most of my colonies have perspex crownboards. If I deliver at the base of the brood box and see billowing clouds through the crownboard I know it's being distributed well. More difficult to test the other way round.
I usually leave the vaporiser hanging out by the spout as I prepare the next hive in the row. The weight of the brood box holds things together. I'd have to find a solution to this with the eke on top. Not insurmountable though ...

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## Adam

I was an early experimenter with poly hives. The Paynes one can sit on a National floor but in order to use a National roof you need to put a wooden super on the top first. I have sold my Paynes hive now. Good design in some parts, poor in others (too soft, no handles, that HUGE floor). My MB / Paradise hive is now only used as an overwintering hive. I have two brood boxes and when used separately one fits on a National floor with a WBC eke in between (!) I have made a plywood crown board with ahole so I can use a feeder. (Not particularly inventive but the manufacturers failed to supply one!). I have a slightly over-sized ply and celotex roof that works on a wooden National too. The bee-slaughter strip for the top bars to fit on is simply stupid  I assume that it was actually designed for this hive ?  and there are bee space issues with the design. I will probably flog mine at some point. I am not doing a very good selling job for it am I? 
I am wary of spending money on more polyhives unless I can see them for myself first so apart from the initial purchases I have spent nothing more on the poly's. (And I don't like the floppy plastic crown boards. They are not good to clean and as they flop onto the top bars it means that there is no bee space (propolis ahoy!).
At the association auction this year an Abello hive didn't even get a bid!

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## fatshark

The Paradise hives (what a misnomer) make perfectly good bait hives. That's all I use mine for these days. I bought 2 complete hives each with two supers. This gives me four bait hives, using two stacked supers. I botched floors and roofs from Correx. I threw the QE away in disgust.

I'd feel really guilty selling them on to an unsuspecting new beekeeper ... especially now there's no QE  :Wink: 

I wonder why the Abelo didn't get a bid? The poly seems nice and dense. They're ready painted and the interface between boxes is well protected. Other than the silly number of inserts, ventilation plugs etc., they looked OK. I'll reserve judgement until next season.

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## alancooper

> At the association auction this year an Abello hive didn't even get a bid!


Why no interest in Abelo? I have tried the Paynes/Swienty hives and still have them, but I favour the Abelo (dense, National friendly, deep roof, hard plastic top/bottom to boxes).

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## Poly Hive

I had an Abelo Langstroth some years ago which I ended up giving away. Over four seasons with two different colonies the bees failed to thrive and certainly didn't get strong enough to need supering. I have no idea why but the material felt very different to the poly I am used to. That might be your answer. 

PH

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## Mellifera Crofter

I have (or had) an assortment of poly Nationals, and prefer Abelo best of all.  It has no management problems as a result of poorly thought-out bee spaces as in the new Swienty Nationals.  The poly is denser than the 100g/l of Swienty.  Abelo has not been able to tell me whether it is, as a consequence, less insulating - but I haven't seen any difference in how the bees thrive between Abelo or Swienty.
Kitta

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## fatshark

I'm just finishing the first season with a bunch of Abelo boxes which are my only *all* poly boxes. I have other mixed Sweinty + wood combinations. I get much more condensation in the Abelo boxes. I'm not aware of it in Sweinty+perspex crownboard+insulation. In the Abelo boxes there are often little puddles underneath the frame lugs. 

I've had to get a second shed to keep all the little plug in ventilation blocks  :Wink:  Perhaps I should use them instead?

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## Mellifera Crofter

Yes, I have noticed puddles in the lug gully, but I don't think it matters.  They're little drinking troughs for the bees if they need it.

Perhaps the same would have happened in Swienties, but because of the small gaps between the ends of the lugs and hive wall, the water drips away, and one doesn't notice it?

I like the holes in the sides.  They're handy to create a top entrance when needed.  I have thought of using the ventilation plugs to create a kind of entrance reducer for the top opening - but I haven't done that yet.  Next summer ...

Kitta

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## steve

Anyone suspect these puddles are due to the hard plastic, ie cold spots, or that the faces do not meet flush because of them? I don't have puddles in my swienty's.

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## Poly Hive

I have serious doubts about the Abelo product.

PH

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## mbc

> I have serious doubts about the Abelo product.
> 
> PH


I bought one as a trial and I'm quite liking it as a box, not sure on the floor or crown board but the brood box and supers seem very good, what I am exited about is their poly national Ashforth feeder, good to go out of the box (as is the rest of their poly national offerings) and a well designed and built bit of kit imho

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## Mellifera Crofter

> Anyone suspect these puddles are due to the hard plastic, ie cold spots, or that the faces do not meet flush because of them? I don't have puddles in my swienty's.


I've had another look at a Swienty hive and I'm sure the reason there aren't puddles in a Swienty is as I've suggested above: If water did collect in the gully of a Swienty, it will just dribble or flow out where the lug rises meet the walls.  The lug rises aren't a perfect fit from wall to wall.  Perhaps one should compare it with one of the poly hives that has polystyrene lug rises, as in the Maisiemore nucs - but I've cut the lug rises of those nucs to avoid all the squashing of bees on top of the top bars, so I can't compare.

But - the puddles in the Abelo hives aren't a problem.  The hives are dry, and not mouldy at all.

Kitta

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