# General beekeeping > Starting out >  First Winter Questions

## marion.orca

Last week I fitted the mouseguard as the weather had turned a bit colder and my thoughts went to the mice looking for a nice warm place. I watched the bees at the entrance and they certainly seemed perplexed by this new unfamiliar addition to their home. A couple of days later I went back to spend a while with them and also checked the floor, where I discovered to my dismay 50 dead workers and 3 dead drones on the floor. Is this because of the mouseguard ? Were they trying to get in through the OMF as opposed to tackling the mouseguard with which they were unfamiliar ? They are healthy bees, so I can see no other explanation for this. I also started feeding, and with regards to feeding, do I just feed for a certain length of time and then stop during winter ? They are currently on syrup - 2:1, and I thought that when they have stopped taking that and seem to have enough, I would put on a block of fondant just to tide them over until early spring. Would that be the way forward ?

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## Trog

What sort of mouseguard are you using?

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## marion.orca

I'm using just the standard metal one that comes with the Thornes " do it yourself " hive. I've just come back from the hive and there are no more on the floor, so can only presume that that was the cause. Everytime I visit the hive I always come away with questions ! The weather here is very mild but wet, and there were a huge amount of bees out and about in the rain, though not much pollen today. I did put a contact feeder on yesterday and found it 1/2 empty already, so topped that up at the same time. It did seem a large amount since yesterday which actually got me thinking. We have a forecast of galeforce winds for Monday, as many other parts of the UK have, hurricane Irene blowing herself out I think. My thought was - has it ever been proven that the bees can "sense" the oncoming bad spell through some sort of sense they have ? I know many animals can predict earthquakes etc. so can the bees do the same and stock up accordingly ? It just surprised me to see them so busy today given the weather conditions.

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## Jon

Is it not a bit early for mouse guards? Mice are usually only a problem when the bees are in a winter cluster.

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## marion.orca

Ah well you see, I've only had my bees since the end of June. Since then I've lost my Queen, so had to unite 2  broods with a new Queen, then noticed a vast amount of Braula, so dealt with that and then to cap it all found Chalkbrood, so dealt with that too and all that in my first 2 & 1/2 months. So there is no chance whatsoever that I am going to allow any " foreign body " within spitting distance of my bees ! Anyhow it saves me a job later as they have adapted to it fine and are not losing any pollen at all on entry.

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## Adam

Unlikely the mouseguard is a (big) problem. It will be harder for workers to get dead bees out of the hive with the mouseguards on but they manage.


For feeding you need to assess how much honey is in the hive rather than "feed and be damned"

I have been feeding for the past 2 - 3 weeks and some hives are definitely full enough considering Ivy has started over the past week here and the bees are now bringing in nectar and pollen very well - so - assuming the weather is OK, most of mine should not need any more syrup. There are excepetions but I have plenty of time before I need to worry. However my season is different to yours.

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## The Drone Ranger

Marion

I used to fit mouseguards but found it's easier and better just to follow the great Ron Brown's advice.
Just get some panel pins and tap them in every 8mm or so across the opening of a standard entrance block.
Mice wont get past that and the bees are happier with the standard entrance of about 3" or so.
(Ron Brown has sadly gone but his book "Honey Bees a Guide to Management" lives on forever)

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## Trog

I've put candy on the smaller colonies but everyone was out briefly today in the warm, though windy, weather.  Pure white pollen coming in.  However, as Marion says, there's some weather coming in and they're unlikely to be able to get out much.  If there's a moment when it's not raining I've 2 more small colonies to give candy to but they're in a towerblock so difficult to get to the bottom ones (have to lift off the top ones including floor so a 2 person job).  Heather really only just coming out; as I went down to a loch to fish this evening, it smelled lovely in the sunshine.

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## marion.orca

I'm certainly not of the opinion " feed and be damned ", far from it, more of the opinion " better safe than sorry " and with the forecast we've had on this coast, I'd rather keep them as healthy as I can. As for hefting to assess the weight -[ I've heard of it, but never done it as yet ] I do only have a brood box as a first year beginner. I'm sure that with more years experience, the hefting will be something I will hopefully recognise as second nature, but for me to heft anything at the moment wouldn't give me any indication whatsoever, as I've nothing to compare it with. So in readiness for the weather the hive is strapped together, contact feeder full and all strapped down to the ground.
DR - I do like the idea of the panel pins as opposed to the mouseguard which is most probably something I will do when I expand [ before a new hive is full of bees !]
Thanks for all your opinions and help, always appreciated.

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## EmsE

I've now got some of my colonies into double brood and thought I'd try the 'hefting' test to see if they need feeding. The problem is that I can't get them to move. Rather than go on the assumption of 'if I can't lift it they must be fine' I'll go through the combs (avoiding the brood nest now) to make sure there's enough in them.  I would like to add in my defense that it's probably not just the weight of honey that's the problem, but the effects of propolis will be playing a part as well.

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## Adam

> I'm certainly not of the opinion " feed and be damned ", far from it, more of the opinion " better safe than sorry " and with the forecast we've had on this coast, I'd rather keep them as healthy as I can. As for hefting to assess the weight -[ I've heard of it, but never done it as yet ] I do only have a brood box as a first year beginner. I'm sure that with more years experience, the hefting will be something I will hopefully recognise as second nature, but for me to heft anything at the moment wouldn't give me any indication whatsoever, as I've nothing to compare it with. So in readiness for the weather the hive is strapped together, contact feeder full and all strapped down to the ground.
> DR - I do like the idea of the panel pins as opposed to the mouseguard which is most probably something I will do when I expand [ before a new hive is full of bees !]
> Thanks for all your opinions and help, always appreciated.


I have heard of examples where the bees take all the feed given to them  until they have no room whatsoever....

You can heft now. (Apart from being strapped to the ground!). Simply lift up the back of the hive and try to remember how heavy it feels. If you know how much stores there is in the hive you've had a first go at hefting. What you have done is to calibrate yourself with the feel of a partially hive. When it's full of stores in a few weeks, have another lift. Hefting is just a method to get a 'feel' for the amount of stores in the hive. 

Hefting is much easier if all the hives are the same. I have 5 WBC's - from light-weight cedar to rediculously heavy marine ply [which HAS to go!]; Nationals of cedar, soft wood and ply in variable proportions and roofs of a wide range of materials too, one new polyhive plus some 8 frame Nationals, a couple of polynucs and some wooden 5 frame nucs (one with a super) so hefting is nigh on impossible!
I must be crackers and would dearly like to standardise!

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