# General beekeeping > Starting out >  Where to get a Smith Hive

## Aramoro

I'm just starting out and I'm looking at getting a Smith Hive, obviously you can get them from Thornes but I was wondering if anyone had any experience with Caddon Hives? Or are there any other manufacturers/suppliers that people would recommend?

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## madasafish

A friend bought WBCs from Caddon and was delighted with the quality.

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## drumgerry

Seriously wouldn't waste my money on full priced Thorne's hives.  I've only got experience of Caddon Nationals and they are perfectly fine.  Decent quality timber and the parts fitted together well.  I might avoid Mann Lake for Nationals.  I bought a few of their brood boxes last year and over winter one of them has split along the grain and it's not even outside in use yet!

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi aramoro
I use Smith hives
Most are from Thornes
Quite a few from the sale which goes on at the end of the season
 I did buy some Baltic pine ones but that wasn't a good idea they warped a lot

There are lots of good things about cedar hives and Smiths in particular but there's no getting away from the cost implications 
That's one reason why people are moving away from wood

The area to watch when assembling a Smith hive is the rebated top edge 
The finger joints need to be snug but not too tight or that edge can split away 



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## Aramoro

> Seriously wouldn't waste my money on full priced Thorne's hives.  I've only got experience of Caddon Nationals and they are perfectly fine.  Decent quality timber and the parts fitted together well.  I might avoid Mann Lake for Nationals.  I bought a few of their brood boxes last year and over winter one of them has split along the grain and it's not even outside in use yet!


Someone did point out the Thorne's stuff was quite expensive and looking it the Thorne's Smith Hive doesn't say what it's made from, though I assume Cedar as that's what's listed elsewhere, whilst the Caddon one is made of Red Cedar and they are local to me which is why I was leaning that way.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Someone did point out the Thorne's stuff was quite expensive and looking it the Thorne's Smith Hive doesn't say what it's made from, though I assume Cedar as that's what's listed elsewhere, whilst the Caddon one is made of Red Cedar and they are local to me which is why I was leaning that way.


Caddon say on their site " Unlike the national and WBC, these Smith hives may have a few Knots in the wood"
I'm knot (sic) sure why that would be but £110 for a complete cedar hive with 2 supers is pretty good

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## nemphlar

The sweinty poly national can be converted to top bee space and fit smiths poly with some simple mods. They're a fraction of the cost

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## drumgerry

Or...if you're just starting out get Swienty poly Nationals and save yourself the bother!  :Wink:   (Smith short lugs are a pita in my opinion)

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## nemphlar

Not nearly so much a pita as bottom bee space and the short lug in this case will stop you crushing bees.
I've never really understood the secure grip argument unless you want to hold it in the palm of your hand

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## prakel

> I've never really understood the secure grip argument


Agreed, they're hangers not handles.

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## drumgerry

A bit of care stops you crushing bees.  Never really got the top versus bottom bee space argument although I understand all the pro and con arguments so please don't repeat them for my benefit.  You learn to work with what you've got.  Can't imagine ever wanting to hold a frame of bees in the palm of my hand - national or smith.  The point I was making is I find national frames less of a fiddle to remove and replace.

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## The Drone Ranger

If you are using Payne's poly nucs Smith frames are a good option to avoid squashing bees where there are no frame rails


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## Poly Hive

I heard that Chainbridge Honey Farm now have their own Smith poly mould. Tip. 

Short lugs are no issue for most of the World who use Langstroths and personally I find the long lug a pain but there you are, one size don't suit all. 

PH

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## prakel

> I heard that Chainbridge Honey Farm now have their own Smith poly mould.


The Robson Green tv episode showed a poly super on the back of their truck, interestingly, it appeared to have the same footprint as the wooden smith boxes that it was stacked with.




> Short lugs are no issue for most of the World who use Langstroths and personally I find the long lug a pain but there you are, one size don't suit all.


Yes, the result of bad eductaion; continuing to instill the idea that the lugs are frame handles.

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## prakel

> I heard that Chainbridge Honey Farm now have their own Smith poly mould.


A good view of them (I assume) here too:

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## Poly Hive

Top bee space is simply more efficient when working numbers of hives. Denrosa dumped their National unit as it was more efficient to have rectangular hives than square ones due to how they stacked on their trucks. When working large scale the little factors stack up and TBS is one of them. 

PH

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