# General beekeeping > Starting out >  Tempt me

## Johnthefarmer

I am an organic farmer in Orkney. Why should I bother about bees? We have the great yellow bumblebee all over the farm, and none of our crops require pollenation by honeybees, I think.Nevertheless, I am being persuaded to keep honey bees on the farm by ' guess who?' .They are the nice varroa-free dark bees;  but, still, what's in it for me? This is not meant as just a personal point, as my arm is already well- twisted, but to justify my submission to others.

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## Rosie

I am based in North Wales and surrounded by sheep and beef cattle farms.  None of my neighbouring farmers can see any financial benefit  from my bees and yet every one I have approached has been more than happy to give me a corner of some field.  2 have even fenced a piece of land off for me and fitted a gate and a style so the sheep can't overturn my hives.  Only one farmer is organic but they are all in tune with the environment and and like to feel that they are playing their part.

When they realise that I am offering honey as rental and that the new farm subsidies will take bees into consideration they get their reward in this life as well as the next. 

Go on - have some bees and sleep soundly. :Smile: 

Rosie

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## Jon

> Go on - have some bees and sleep soundly.
> Rosie


And I am sure  Doris has already mentioned the good karma which beekeeping generates?

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## Neils

We run a scheme down this neck of the woods to match up landowners offering space for beehives with beekeepers looking for places to stick them. Granted in the middle of a city space to site hives is perhaps at a bit of a premium compared to the Orkneys but is providing a little corner of your land to enable someone to pursue a rewarding hobby in exchange for a couple of pots of honey not reason enough?  :Smile:

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## Johnthefarmer

Go on then, give me and my ilk more reasons. Are bees gonna save us all? Or is it that if we can't save the bees we're stuffed?

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## gavin

Here's another view John.  Those Great Yellows are a treasure.  Who needs honeybees on the farm when you have Great Yellow Bumble Bees?!  Tell her to keep them in town where there are the exotic plant species of suburbia such as Fuchsia and sycamore!

You could run wildlife tours showing people your Great Yellows as a nice little side-line in the summer (and hopefully cream off a slice of the income at the Orca Hotel if they stay there), so why risk all that by permitting competing pollinators on your land?!

Let's face it, the Great Yellows are perfectly attuned to the range of wildflowers in your meadows and sustain them by letting the plants lay down seeds in the soil for the future in a perfect cycle of mutual support.  Why risk all that by bringing in semi-domesticated pollinator stock that need continual attention to survive in the long-term?!  What if they replace and displace the Great Yellows?  It isn't as if you have vast acreages of almond plantation in your fields needing honeybees, is it?!

[should have put some sort of winking smiley here I think]

OK, to be serious (not that the above was completely in jest) I doubt that there would be strong competition between the two.  Great Yellows are long-tongued bees adapted to the flowers honeybees don't reach such as red clover, birdsfoot trefoil and the like.  However I'll bet that they both go for general forage too like thistles and thyme and so one could affect the other to some extent.

Anyway, that wasn't the question.  What's in it for your farm?  More assured pollination of the plants that make up any wildflower meadows you may have (but the great yellows will do that job admirably).  A few jars of honey as rental.  Possible introduction to a totally absorbing hobby.  Probably more important than anything, peaceable co-existence with your local beekeeper.

Did that help?!

best wishes

Gavin

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## lindsay s

Hi John I hope you will be at the beekeeping meeting on monday night and I will explain to you how I have kept bees in Orkney for 30 years B.D.(BEFORE DORIS)

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## Rosie

John,

Here are another couple of points.  Apologies if you already knew them!

First I am assuming you don't need to be persuaded that pollination is a good thing for either you or the environment or both.  If that is taken as read then the next question might be "what's the best pollinator".

Apart from wind many creatures can pollinate but in our climate it's done mostly by insects.  Of the insects the various bees are considered the best although there are a few flowers that they cannot penetrate.  Of the bees they all have their own niches despite overlapping where plants have evolved to suit a number of species.   However, honey bees'  unique niche is defined by their behavioural traits that are absent in other species as well as their body shape and tongue length.  These unique habits or behavioural traits are A) their overwintering capability which means they start the season with large pollination forces when other social insects still have tiny nests,  B) they tend to stick to a single plant species while it is in flower so that a honey bee visiting an apple, for instance, will be carrying pollen from another apple flower rather than from say a dandelion and C) they will cover a large area 

There will be some plants that suit bumble bees better but all pollinators have a role to play so an area devoid of honey bees will be impoverished to some degree.  They belong to and are needed in the environment of the mainland and I would guess they also belong in Orkney.

Another separate consideration is the good work Doris is doing to preserve the Dark European Honey Bee.  It must be preserved for future generations and isolated islands are perfect for establishing reserves which are free from interference from other races.  The more hives that can be kept on the island the less will be your inbreeding risks.

Rosie

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## Johnthefarmer

Started the thread slightly downcast ,drinking beer in my caravan because I'd lost my good penknife, and was wondering what everything was for. Now, I have ordered a replacement from Sheffield LittleMesters and have been encouraged generally by thoughtful, supportive posts and am now, more than ever ,sure that the farm shall have bees to complement the sheep,cows, barley, oats, poultry, horses,dog, cat, and Great Yellows.Exactly what the bees do for the general benefit of the rest of the farm remains slightly uncertain, but I am quite prepared to live with uncertainty.Indeed,it's what I relish.

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## Jon

> I am quite prepared to live with uncertainty.Indeed,it's what I relish.


That's what you get with beekeeping but it's good to have it in manageable doses.

Since when did you need an excuse to drink beer in a caravan?
I bet you crack open another one if that penknife turns up, which it surely will, but not until the replacement has arrived.

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## gavin

You'll find that beekeepers (until they learn, which takes years) tend to drop their hive tools into the grass with surprising regularity and can never find them again after that.  You'll be well-supplied with them assuming that you let bees and their attached beekeeper onto the farm, like golf balls next to a golf course.  With a bit of grinding (the hive tools, not the golf balls or indeed the beekeeper) they could pass as back-up knives.

Of course Doris being Doris will invent some new recycled hive tool from a rusty old tractor bolt or something, so perhaps her cast-offs will be less useful.

So that is one benefit of letting bees in.  Another is their ability to herd sheep.  I find that in the first few weeks sheep are attracted to the hives which they tend to push around quite a lot with the itchy bit of their backs.  Give it an extra few weeks though and you'll find big semi-circles of ungrazed pasture around the fronts of the hives.  Potentially useful for managing grazing, no?

hope that helped   :Wink: 

G

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## Neils

Hey! After two years I still have both hive tools. That they cost nearly a tenner each and hence I have them surgically affixed to both hands is neither here nor there.  We did have a talk from an ex commercial guy who had his attached to his bee suit on elastic.  I did consider trying that but also realised that mine have really sharp edges and you only have to let go of them once and you'll never lose them again.

JohntheFarmer.

Isn't peace and quiet from Doris worth that 3x3 patch of land  :Wink:

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