# General beekeeping > Starting out >  Locations

## Fawcettpark

Hi,  I would be grateful for any advice on keeping bees in Scotland, particularly how far north is practical (Depending on site I guess and sources of food), and also advice on midges - are these a problem for beekeepers and gardeners . We are looking to move around the Callander area and to have bees  ( I have done the basic courses)  and also spend as much time out doors tending the garden - hence the midge question.
Many thanks for your help.

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## The Drone Ranger

Avon "Skin So Soft" is the best midge repellant 
It works better than all the citronnela and other repellants
Re Bees check if the area is still varroa free and buy the bees locally by joining the local association that should get you all the information on local forage honey etc
Hopefully someone on here will come along with the LA info

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## Fawcettpark

Thanks for your reply, I have read a lot about skin so soft to keep the midges from biting , am I right in saying that midges can get through mesh on a bee suit?  I will join the local bee group as soon as we decide on location I appreciated all the help from our local group when I was doing my training.

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## gavin

> Thanks for your reply, I have read a lot about skin so soft to keep the midges from biting , am I right in saying that midges can get through mesh on a bee suit?  I will join the local bee group as soon as we decide on location I appreciated all the help from our local group when I was doing my training.


Callander should be a lovely place to do beekeeping, and gardening.  It is a mixed area with lots of mixed woodland.  The nearest association is likely to be the one that meets in Dunblane, the Dunblane and Stirling Beekeeping Association.  They're a large and friendly group covering a big area.

There is a healthy population of beekeepers on Orkney so you'd be nowhere near the northern limit  :Smile: .

Midges sometimes bother me in my lowland apiaries in Tayside and can be awful in the Angus glens.  From some evening visits to the bees in the Angus glens and from trying beekeeping equipment on camping trips in Wester Ross I can confirm that veils are a *bad* idea.  They go straight through then mass inside.  But you can buy fine-meshed midgie veils from outdoors shops for gardening if you have to be out and static when they are.

However in a garden you should be fine.  Callander is not the wet, wet, west coast where the midgies are fierce.  They might bother you in warmish humid weather (worst in the evenings) but once the sun is out they melt away.  To be replaced in some places by clegs  :Wink: .

G.

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## fatshark

Callander is a lovely place even if you're not beekeeping and gardening.

Welcome.

PS 'Skin so soft' ... now I realise why all Scottish beekeepers I meet have such fantastic complexions ... nothing like this at all 

walnut.jpg

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## Fawcettpark

Thanks gavin ,  that has gone a long way to easing my mind, it has been a dream of mine to have my own bees for quite a while now and now that we are able to move I just want to make sure this is the right place.
Good advice about the veils .
Oh the clegs I had forgotten about them!

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## Mellifera Crofter

> ...  But you can buy fine-meshed midgie veils from outdoors shops for gardening if you have to be out and static when they are.
> ...
> 
> G.


My midgie veil or hood wraps far too close to my nose for me to feel bee-proof wearing it - so, on a few occasions last year the midgies were so fierce that I wore the midgie hood inside my bee veil.  Not ideal, but it helped.

There's a pine forest to the east of the Croft and each year as the forest grows higher, the midgies get worse. 

I've mentioned the midgie problem before, but there was no response - so I assumed the Scots don't complain about something as tiny as a midgie. You just get on with the task at hand, and it's only foreigners like me who complain!  (Not quite true - this is my second homeland. I only sound like a foreigner.)

Kitta

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## fatshark

Apparently the blue bottle of SSS is the stuff to use ... and you could even consider replacing the mesh in the beesuit veil with 'midgie netting' which you can buy by the yard.

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## The Drone Ranger

> My midgie veil or hood wraps far too close to my nose for me to feel bee-proof wearing it - so, on a few occasions last year the midgies were so fierce that I wore the midgie hood inside my bee veil.  Not ideal, but it helped.
> 
> There's a pine forest to the east of the Croft and each year as the forest grows higher, the midgies get worse. 
> 
> I've mentioned the midgie problem before, but there was no response - so I assumed the Scots don't complain about something as tiny as a midgie. You just get on with the task at hand, and it's only foreigners like me who complain!  (Not quite true - this is my second homeland. I only sound like a foreigner.)
> 
> Kitta


The vicous ones can bite you through A beesuit or a shirt never mind a veil
Thymol might keep them at bay Kitta just stick some api life var in the suit pockets
And you'll get some space at the bar during the lunchtime break as a bonus  :Smile:

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## drumgerry

The smoker's a handy tool for the dispersal of midges.  This from someone who has an apiary about 50 yards from the Spey so I have experience with the wee blood sucking sods!

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## RDMW

Midges area natural phenomena like rain or wind. Choose your time and work with nature and all will be well. A bright day with a bit of wind will be midge free. A dull overcast day with a drizzle is impossible . I have a midge hat with a broad brim which keeps the veil off my face but it is too hot to work in
I have kept bees on the sunny west coast in ullapool for 12 years and the midges and I have learned to coexist peacefully


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## Mellifera Crofter

That's a handy link to bookmark, Fatshark.  I've asked BB Wear of they'd make me an extra hood with midgie netting, but they wouldn't do it.  I might try again ...

I don't have any api life var, John, but I'll try the blue Avon this summer.

Kitta

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## Mellifera Crofter

> ... A bright day with a bit of wind will be midge free. ...


I suppose that's the only good part about all the wind on our hill: the midgies are often just blown away - but not always.

Kitta

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## gavin

> That's a handy link to bookmark, Fatshark.  I've asked BB Wear of they'd make me an extra hood with midgie netting, but they wouldn't do it.  I might try again ...


That has to be a business opportunity for someone out there.  Pocket-money probably, but there would be a demand.

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## fatshark

I can't imaging replacing the veil on one of those 'retro' suits (I think that's what BBwear call them) would be too tricky. The fencing mask-type would be more work. I don't think the veil material contributes to the 'rigidity' of the veil or whatever it's called that keeps it off your face.

Much as I like my BBwear suit and jacket, I wish they'd take a bit more effort with the thumb elastic. They're rubbish. I'm just replacing mine for this season.

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## The Drone Ranger

Mosquitoes also target people who produce excess amounts of certain acids, such as uric acid, explains entomologist John Edman, PhD, spokesman for the Entomological Society of America. These substances can trigger mosquitoes' sense of smell, luring them to land on unsuspecting victims.

But the process of attraction begins long before the landing. Mosquitoes can smell their dinner from an impressive distance of up to 50 meters, explains Edman. This doesn't bode well for people who emit large quantities of carbon dioxide.

http://www.webmd.com/allergies/featu...osquito-magnet

So just off the top of my head that suggests a smelly person to sit at the edge of the apiary
And holding your breath which you might be doing anyway

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## fatshark

Gavin might know APS (Advanced Pest Solutions - now Dundee based) which, amongst other things, runs midge traps on the tees of pro golf events. Or used to perhaps, I don't know if they still do. These things emit carbon dioxide and trap *kilograms* of midges. They also have a midge forecast website so you can see if it's going to be bad and lather up with Avon  :Wink:

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## The Drone Ranger

> I can't imaging replacing the veil on one of those 'retro' suits (I think that's what BBwear call them) would be too tricky. The fencing mask-type would be more work. I don't think the veil material contributes to the 'rigidity' of the veil or whatever it's called that keeps it off your face.
> 
> Much as I like my BBwear suit and jacket, I wish they'd take a bit more effort with the thumb elastic. They're rubbish. I'm just replacing mine for this season.


Just bought a suit from Mann Lake and it was in the sale when I went to checkout 
BBwear zips are great but I've had Mrs DR do the elastic loads of times in my jacket

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## fatshark

There's a solution to the elastic. 
Fit a simple fabric loop at the end of the sleeve. Short and tidy. Then all you need to do is replace the elastic as and when needed by just doing a loop-to-loop connection. My needlework is almost as carp as my woodwork, but I've done this on a couple of suits and it works well.

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## The Drone Ranger

When my new one arrives the BBwear will be getting a good boilwash and become my visiting other peoples bees jacket
The current incumbent of the visiting jacket is a smock and will become my Morris Dancing jacket

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## chairman dave

[QUOTE=Fawcettpark;34258]Hi,  I would be grateful for any advice on keeping bees in Scotland, particularly how far north is practical (Depending on site I guess and sources of food), and also advice on midges - are these a problem for beekeepers and gardeners . We are looking to move around the Callander area and to have bees  ( I have done the basic courses)  and also spend as much time out doors tending the garden - hence the midge question.
Many thanks for your help.[/QUOTE

When I consider where I would keep honey bees then I look at the environmental conditions they would endure. Callander is an area where people reside at altitudes between 70-200-M above sea level. Furthermore, the area is often subjected to abnormally low atmosphere air pressures (depressions). However, Scotland per se is subjected often to abnormally low air pressures and most of the land is way above sea level where wild bees have not become extinct and bee-keeping seems to be increasing and thriving thanks to all those bee-keepers making the effort to get other people into the profession.

If I were to sink money into bee-keeping anywhere in Scotland then I would opt for a method of keeping my hives indoors. This would not be my living room but instead could be a greenhouse or a specially designed shed structure. Anybody already doing this?

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## The Drone Ranger

There are specially designed bee houses Dave 
Alpine-Bee_house.jpg

Bavaria I believe this one is in

Bees would not work for me in the living room as they are too ready to land on the TV screen at the first opportunity

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## chairman dave

> There are specially designed bee houses Dave 
> Alpine-Bee_house.jpg
> 
> Bavaria I believe this one is in
> 
> Bees would not work for me in the living room as they are too ready to land on the TV screen at the first opportunity



I would prefer a sturdy heated greenhouse where tomato's and grapes could be grown because bee-keeping is not an all-year-round job.

Thanks for the image of the Bavarian shed. I have started to use it for my sticky labels.

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## The Drone Ranger

No worries Dave I stole it off the internet  :Smile: 

I'll need to just pop out and check my Winter Tomatoes I don't think they are making much progress
Thanks for the greenhouse idea I must get one

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## Emma

Silly to have bees in the living room, DR. Should have them in the bedroom, instead, so they can hum you to sleep :-)

Bees in greenhouse doesn't sound too good to me, chairman dave - too warm in the summer. The bees could die, and wax could melt. They expend a lot of effort on air-conditioning  on really hot days.

Also, the walls would be too light - there would be a cloud of bees trying to get out through the glass every time you opened the hives. I'm forever rescuing them from the window in my bee shed, just the ones that come in for a nosey round my spare equipment.

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## The Drone Ranger

Your tomatoes would be well pollinated though

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## Jon

You wont be able to keep bees in a heated greenhouse. They need to chill and cluster over the winter and would fly out and die if the hive were kept in a heated area.

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## The Drone Ranger

> You wont be able to keep bees in a heated greenhouse. They need to chill and cluster over the winter and would fly out and die if the hive were kept in a heated area.


Well thats it I'm deffo not getting one now
They sound useless

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## chairman dave

> Well thats it I'm deffo not getting one now
> They sound useless


But the farmer who I showed my designs to 15-years ago in Thurso said I could sell thousands of them if I build them!!!!!

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## fatshark

I've kept mini-nucs in a frost-free (just) greenhouse overwinter. They did just fine. As others say ... far too hot in the summer.
I've currently got bees in a bee shed, where they'll reside all year. However, I'm a beginner with bee sheds. There are others on here with much more experience.

Here's the best bee shed I've seen in a long time ...
12651007_1029257823783320_4841397271438513233_n.jpg

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## chairman dave

> I've kept mini-nucs in a frost-free (just) greenhouse overwinter. They did just fine. As others say ... far too hot in the summer.
> I've currently got bees in a bee shed, where they'll reside all year. However, I'm a beginner with bee sheds. There are others on here with much more experience.
> 
> Here's the best bee shed I've seen in a long time ...
> Attachment 2576



That bee shed must have been built where there are no local authority building inspectors.

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## busybeephilip

I want one of those ........

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## deanrpwaacs

I dont fancy standing on the step ladder playing with the second row of hives on the middle floor level 😨

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