# More ... > Beekeeping and the environment >  Pesticide combination affects bees' ability to learn - comments anyone?

## gavin

Picked up by the Beeb here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21958547

And here is the official Press Release from the hosting university (I'll avoid bolding and italicising lest you think I've turned into Borderbeeman):



Two pesticides target same learning centre of bee brainResearch shows combined pesticides impact on bee brain functionBees become slower to learn and forget floral scents 

Two new studies have highlighted a negative impact on bees' ability  to learn following exposure to a combination of pesticides commonly used  in agriculture. The researchers found that the pesticides, used in the  research at levels shown to occur in the wild, could interfere with the  learning circuits in the bee's brain. They also found that bees exposed  to combined pesticides were slower to learn or completely forgot  important associations between floral scent and food rewards.


 In the study published today (27th March 2013) in Nature  Communications, the University of Dundee's Dr Christopher Connolly and  his team investigated the impact on bees' brains of two common  pesticides: pesticides used on crops called neonicotinoid pesticides,  and another type of pesticide, coumaphos, that is used in honeybee hives  to kill the Varroa mite, a parasitic mite that attacks the honey bee.


The intact bees' brains were exposed to pesticides in the lab at  levels predicted to occur following exposure in the wild and brain  activity was recorded. They found that both types of pesticide target  the same area of the bee brain involved in learning, causing a loss of  function. If both pesticides were used in combination, the effect was  greater.


The study is the first to show that these pesticides have a direct  impact on pollinator brain physiology. It was prompted by the work of  collaborators Dr Geraldine Wright and Dr Sally Williamson at Newcastle  University who found that combinations of these same pesticides affected  learning and memory in bees. Their studies established that when bees  had been exposed to combinations of these pesticides for 4 days, as many  as 30% of honeybees failed to learn or performed poorly in memory  tests. Again, the experiments mimicked levels that could be seen in the  wild, this time by feeding a sugar solution mixed with appropriate  levels of pesticides.


Dr Geraldine Wright said: "Pollinators perform sophisticated  behaviours while foraging that require them to learn and remember floral  traits associated with food. Disruption in this important function has  profound implications for honeybee colony survival, because bees that  cannot learn will not be able to find food."


Together the researchers expressed concerns about the use of  pesticides that target the same area of the brain of insects and the  potential risk of toxicity to non-target insects. Moreover, they said  that exposure to different combinations of pesticides that act at this  site may increase this risk.

 Dr Christopher Connolly said: "Much discussion of the risks posed by  the neonicotinoid insecticides has raised important questions of their  suitability for use in our environment. However, little consideration  has been given to the miticidal pesticides introduced directly into  honeybee hives to protect the bees from the Varroa mite. We find that  both have negative impact on honeybee brain function."


"Together, these studies highlight potential dangers to pollinators  of continued exposure to pesticides that target the insect nervous  system and the importance of identifying combinations of pesticides that  could profoundly impact pollinator survival."


This research is part of the Insect Pollinators Initiative,  joint-funded by the Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research  Council, Defra, the Natural Environment Research Council (NERC), the  Scottish Government and the Wellcome Trust under the auspices of the  Living with Environmental Change (LWEC) partnership.

*
Contact*
[the BBSRC Head of News guy]

*Notes to editor*

 'Cholinergic pesticides cause mushroom body neuronal inactivation in honeybees'. Nature Communications. From 1600 27 March at:  http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/ncomms2648.

 'Exposure to multiple cholinergic pesticides impairs olfactory  learning and memory in honeybees.' J Exp Biol Advance Online Articles. 7 February 2013 as doi:10.1242/jeb.083931Access the most recent version  at http://jeb.biologists.org/lookup/doi/10.1242/jeb.083931


For media enquiries contact:
[some poor bloke in the University Press Office]

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## Jon

Would any pesticide not have an effect on a bee brain, carbamate, organophosphate, pyretheroid, whatever.
Is this exclusive to neonicotinoids? I would not have thought so.

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## Black Comb

Not seen Coumaphos mentioned in the past. Does it have a brand name?

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## gavin

Checkmite.

The lead researcher put coumaphos into his grant proposal as he'd heard tales of some beekeepers using sheep dip (a practice which I hope has now stopped) but the truth was that it was a pyrethroid sheep dip rather than the organophosphate one based on coumaphos.  They were just saving the pennies by buying the same active ingredient as used in a bee-targetted preparation in a different way. So the work would have been irrelevant for the UK, only now as luck would have it some beekeepers (just commercial guys as far as I am aware) *are* using coumaphos (here and there).  It is available legally through the Cascade system which allows it to be prescribed by a vet or an 'SQP' in the UK, and it is also available through unofficial routes.  Never touch the stuff myself, it is an organophosphate being applied into the boxes of a food-producing organism for goodness sake!

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## Jon

I have not heard of anyone using it locally.

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## Dark Bee

> Not seen Coumaphos mentioned in the past. Does it have a brand name?


From memory, coumaphos is an organophosphate poison used in varroa control. It was used in the USA and I think in Germany, it was not legal to use in Ireland. I seem to remember reading that it was related to the chemicals in Agent Orange, used as a defoliant in Vietnam. The trade name was "Pirizen".

Apologies just seen the above comprehensive reply from Gavin.

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## gavin

> Would any pesticide not have an effect on a bee brain, carbamate, organophosphate, pyretheroid, whatever.
> Is this exclusive to neonicotinoids? I would not have thought so.


The focus on neonics is bizarre.  However it wouldn't surprise me if, before long, we are not being told that all our miticide treatments are killing our bees too rather than saving them from the real bee health issue.  All the newspapers say that the bees are dying, so it must be true.

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## gavin

Quite right Dark Bee, Perizen is the trade name on the continent, Checkmite is the US version.

(but Agent Orange is a herbicide)

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## Jon

DB
I think we have some differences in what's legal and what's not between the two jurisdictions north and south because of that wiggly line drawn across the island some time ago.

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## Dark Bee

> Quite right Dark Bee, Perizen is the trade name on the continent, Checkmite is the US version.
> 
> (but Agent Orange is a herbicide)


I think it was the gentleman with the fogger, mentioned in another thread, who spoke about it. My own recollection is a trifle foggy now and I cannot recall what the alleged relation to agent orange was !! However I have just discovered that Dave Cushman has a section of his site devoted to coumaphos.

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## Dark Bee

> DB
> I think we have some differences in what's legal and what's not between the two jurisdictions north and south because of that wiggly line drawn across the island some time ago.


"Politics; the foolishness of many for the welfare of a few" - Jonathan Swift.

Samuel Johnson had an apposite comment also.

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## Jon

The Galtee queens make their way up north irrespective of any so called borders.
They must be flying at night to avoid the guards on the heavily fortified frontier which separates the two Koreas.

I doubt if our bees will be exposed to a lot of neonicotinoid via oil seed rape this year as it had been too wet to get seed into the ground.
Not sure if many are sowing seed at the moment. Unlikely I would have thought.

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## gavin

Perhaps I should also mention that coumaphos gets a mention in Dennis vanEngelsdorp et al's paper in 2009 called 'Colony Collapse Disorder: A descriptive study'.

The paper is notable for managing to find an association between a pesticide and apparent CCD cases.  However, the spin merchants rarely point out that the presence of coumaphos was associated with protection from CCD rather than its enhancement.  The tendency is to believe that at least some of the CCD cases were somehow related to Varroa, a beastie which doesn't enjoy coumaphos in its environment.

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## prakel

I seem to remember that coumaphos was also a principle player in the contaminated beeswax reserch which Jennifer Berry carried out a couple of years ago.


edit: http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/i...y&recordID=626




> Coumaphos, an organic phosphate, is an insecticide used for the control of a wide variety of insects found on livestock. It is a cholinesterase inhibitor, which attacks the nervous system. It is used against insects that live outside the host animals, (ectoparasites) such as ticks, and mites. It was registered in this country for use in honey bee colonies under a Section 18 or emergency use registration because of the mounting resistance to fluvalinate being reported by beekeepers back in the 1990s.

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## gavin

Interesting assessment of this paper from Randy Oliver on Bee-L.  I haven't read the original paper yet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The study hinges on the applied dose, in which
the authors applied solutions of the neonics at ~2.5 ppb directly to
isolated brain cells in the lab.  They based these concentrations upon the
levels measured in nectar of treated crops, and cited Suchail (2004) as
justification that the neonics then translocated to the brain.

Unfortunately, the authors misinterpreted the graphs in Suchail's paper of
the actual distribution of imidacloprid in the bees' body over time!  Had
they interpreted correctly, they would have noticed that no more than 5% of
the dose of imidacloprid ever reached the bees' heads (and that was with
DMSO added as a membrane-penetrating solvent).  Suchail did not study the
other insecticides they tested, so the authors had no justification for the
doses applied of those products.

Bottom line, the authors' findings were based upon levels of imidacloprid
at least 20x higher than field-realistic exposure, and upon unsubstantiated
doses of coumaphos and clothianidin.  Had the authors actually fed the test
bees the pesticides, and then later measured the action potentials, we may
have actually learned something!

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## worm (JTF3)

> Interesting assessment of this paper from Randy Oliver on Bee-L.  I haven't read the original paper yet.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The study hinges on the applied dose, in which
> the authors applied solutions of the neonics at ~2.5 ppb directly to
> isolated brain cells in the lab.  They based these concentrations upon the
> levels measured in nectar of treated crops, and cited Suchail (2004) as
> justification that the neonics then translocated to the brain.
> ...


    How much, would you estimate , does mess up bees' heads?  2.5 ppb .25 ppb, 25 ppb? If so, of what?
    ( Angels/pin heads!  )
  The stuff clearly buggers up bees' brains, and does worse for their larvae.
  Neonics are now the most prevalent insecticide worldwide.
  They are now impinging on birdlife, soillife, ourlife.

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## The Drone Ranger

I didn't see the bit about larvae what did it say the effect was??

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## gavin

They're insecticides, Eric, it is their job to bugger up insect brains.  Some of the stuff buggers up mite brains too, and that is why beekeepers put things like fluvalinate, coumaphos, formic acid, oxalic acid and thymol into their hives.  The trick is finding levels that don't damage bees.  

The trouble is, a level that a whole bee tolerates (or a whole bee inside a whole colony tolerates) is not the same as a chopped off bee head will tolerate and that is not the same as an isolated bee brain removed from its head and with its protective membrane removed will tolerate.  Just imagine sinking a shot of whisky down the usual hatch, and comparing that with the effect of the nip poured directly onto the exposed surface of the human brain.

If the lab results are saying one thing yet the bees foraging on that 2.5ppb stuff are perfectly happy with it and behave normally, why bother?  As I've said, I'm happy to show you bees foraging, dancing, getting excited, bringing home the goodies, and generally thriving on OSR.  Seeing is believing, believe me.

Oh, and I know a man who uses coumaphos, so we can cover that one too if you like.  Tens of thousands of American beekeepers have used the stuff and no-one there is saying it stops the bees functioning normally.

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## worm (JTF3)

> I didn't see the bit about larvae what did it say the effect was??


Just click on' neonicotinoid effects on bee larvae ' search.

 I would say it's similar to the effect of an alcoholic or heroin addict mother on her foetus (emotive comparison eh?)

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## worm (JTF3)

> I didn't see the bit about larvae what did it say the effect was??


something else for you to read :    
http://agroecologygroup.org.uk/wp-co...ic-Goulson.pdf

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## The Drone Ranger

> something else for you to read :    
> http://agroecologygroup.org.uk/wp-co...ic-Goulson.pdf


Interesting stuff 
The rape yield/HA graph doesn't agree with the Scottish Gov published figures though
That showed a quite substantial increase/HA and that planted area was fairly constant.

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## worm (JTF3)

> Interesting stuff 
> The rape yield/HA graph doesn't agree with the Scottish Gov published figures though
> That showed a quite substantial increase/HA and that planted area was fairly constant.


What do you think about foetal development disruption? Maybe it could be why bees that seem to thrive on neonic crops sometimes die out in the next spring?

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## gavin

Don't believe that honeybees have foetuses, but wouldn't your theory mean they would die out 2-3 weeks later?  Don't see that either.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

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## Jon

> What do you think about foetal development disruption? Maybe it could be why bees that seem to thrive on neonic crops sometimes die out in the next spring?


Bound to work exactly the same way in mammals as invertebrates, right!!!
Do explain!!!

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## The Drone Ranger

Well I can only say I live in the centre of an oil seed rape growing area
The most hives I have had was 35
I have cut back because it was taking too much of my time
I have 14 at the moment and this winter which has been a long one I have lost 1 hive
In that instance the bees were over a small patch of brood containing drones ie queen failure
I haven't experienced the problems you are describing
Are you in a rape growing area -- what effects have you noticed on your bees ?

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## worm (JTF3)

> Bound to work exactly the same way in mammals as invertebrates, right!!!
> Do explain!!!


      Our acetyl choline receptors/neuron systems are very similar. What's your point?

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## Jon

Anyway, about that bee foetus?
You got any evidence for that entertaining foetal theory.
Please let it involve both Freemasons and Chemtrails.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hey guys lets not get over exited
If there are beekeepers who are suffering losses in rape growing areas they will be along to describe their experience

Whats with the unnecessary rudeness

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## The Drone Ranger

Sorry chaps off to bed this is silly

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## drumgerry

Yep - pretty soon it'll be "don't smoke the bees you'll harm the foetuses".  Ridiculous!  Bring back Doris for a sensible discussion!  Whoops - taken that too far now.

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## gavin

LOL!

'But you don't have a womb!  Where's the foetus going to gestate - are you going to keep it in a box?!!'

Now I'm confused.  Presumably you edited the Monty Python to show Peter Cook instead and Eric 'quoted' the one you first thought of?'  I enjoyed them both anyway ....

Top marks to Drumgerry for squeezing in a Chewing the Fat clip but Jon's is one of the very best video links we've had, up there with Ivor Cutler spotting anomalies whilst counting fruit (even though I say so myself).

I can see something of the reason for the bee foetus theory - that 9 months the human one takes bridges the gap nicely between bee health in May and bee armageddon in Jan or after.  And beekeepers are only human after all.  That 9 month gap has always been a bit of an embarassment to the anti-neonic campaigners, but at last we have a decent explanation.  Plus we shouldn't discard any possible way of implicating neonics in the honeybee difficulties that surface as the winter turns into spring.  To that end let's be sure that we don't mention in a public place:

- the complete lack of anything wrong with bees while they forage on neonic-treated rape
- huge experience elsewhere of coumaphos being safe (as normally used) for bees
- the entirely predictable loss of weakened colonies that didn't have their mites controlled properly
- the entirely predictable loss of small colonies overwintering after a difficult season when fewer winter bees were raised and overwintering stores were low
- the lowish losses, usually to do with queen failure, noted by those who do treat Varroa well and, when required, who both feed to stimulate late brood raising and lodge decent levels of winter stores

One out of seven for me.  One out of 14 for DR.  How are your losses in OSR-free Dumbartonshire, Eric?

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## The Drone Ranger

It might be worth plotting colony losses (where data is available) just to see what the position is
If there is a problem, and there could be, it should be fairly evident
That's where I would start anyway

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## Jimbo

DR the SBA did and found a East/West difference which was promptly put down by some as evidence that neonic's on the rape areas caused the higher colony losses in the East,
however none of the usual differences were eliminated eg weather, varroa free areas in the West, more predominent Amm colonies in the West etc. I am certain you could add a few other factors to this list.
Could even be the fact that in the West the beekeepers have salt and vinegar on their chips where as the beekeepers in the East have salt and sauce so by using acetic acid in the West they might have less disease in their colonies. (It's a good a reason as any other for the differences!)

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## gavin

There were some naive speculations on the back of that in the press.  The whole business is so predictable (and indeed was predicted).  

Other major factors to add to Jimbo's list:

- differences in forage (esp after early July in arable areas vs more mixed areas)
- differences in standards of Varroa control and general bee management from beekeeper to beekeeper

The really disappointing thing is that the papers already published on the subject of colony losses say very clearly that losses are often multifactorial, and that the big ones influencing colony loss are Varroa, Varroa's viruses, autumn colony strength, and queen age.  There is no suitable data on these in the Scottish east-west studies.

The other thing is the way the volunteers were collected.  You just can't drum up local support in a few areas across Scotland, each local area with its own predominant beekeeping ethos and standards, then claim that geographical trends mean something other than plain geographical trends.  I have a lot more faith in Magnus and Alison' data which comes from a stratified random sample (but not much faith in their interpretation of the correlations).

You should get the Scottish Beekeeper, DR, there has been quite a lot of this sort of stuff in it over the last year.  And compensation and insurance too, all for the price of one super frame cut into 5 pieces of cut comb.

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## The Drone Ranger

I probably should get the magazine by rejoining SBA 
I get Beecraft and the online version
Regards the survey its always tricky if you have a snapshot of only one year I suppose

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## gavin

> I probably should get the magazine by rejoining SBA 
> I get Beecraft and the online version
> Regards the survey its always tricky if you have a snapshot of only one year I suppose


You know it makes sense!

To be fair, the SBA's own survey data did show an east-west difference across several years.  OK, they weren't great years weather-wise in the east, but there is something else causing the difference.  My money would be on differing forage availability later in the year and different standards, perhaps Varroa control.   Now the survey run for Dundee University is showing the same thing over two winters, both of them after poor summers for the bees in the east.

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## The Drone Ranger

How was the sample constructed it wouldn't have been the whole SBA

Wonder what the underlying reason is I doubt it is to do with chemicals but managing bees on rape has its difficulties namely the rapid expansion then sudden disappearance of the crop.
That drives swarming and if they do swarm it's at a time when there will soon be a shortage of forage 
Might not be so severe down your way Gavin not sure if there is a follow on crop
I hardly ever lose a hive in Winter, and I'm right on the edge of rape fields all around me-- every year

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## gavin

The Magnus and Alison (and, once, me) surveys were a random sample of a certain number within distinct geographical areas to make something like 15% of the membership.  The surveys were designed to be compatible with the international project COLOSS reporting colony losses in a standardised way.

The C Connolly/ John D surveys were as many enthusiastic volunteers as they could find for a project that was known to the membership, through emails and in some places rousing talks by CC, to be hunting for evidence that OSR exposure *together with chemical treatments for Varroa* were causing winter colony deaths.  More contributers seem to have come from some areas - such as Fife and Ayrshire.

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## gavin

> How was the sample constructed it wouldn't have been the whole SBA
> 
> Wonder what the underlying reason is I doubt it is to do with chemicals but managing bees on rape has its difficulties namely the rapid expansion then sudden disappearance of the crop.
> That drives swarming and if they do swarm it's at a time when there will soon be a shortage of forage 
> Might not be so severe down your way Gavin not sure if there is a follow on crop
> I hardly ever lose a hive in Winter, and I'm right on the edge of rape fields all around me-- every year


Swarming after rape is common with mine too.  After rape there can be some hawthorn, maybe clover, and in damp years lime.  Perhaps some sycamores still flowering.

I know that you treat Varroa very effectively, and I'll guess that you feed well enough later in the summer or early autumn.  Or perhaps you have Himalayan balsam.

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## The Drone Ranger

There is balsam but I make sure they are well fed in September


One chap I know with 20+ years experience was losing most of his bees every year
Eventually a few years ago instead of coming back to me for more bees he started treating and feeding 
Last time I saw him (last year)he was giving bees to his neighbour who was just getting started
When I say he wasn't treating, he was, but only Apistan and only if he spotted damaged bees 
He's a reformed character now and  he gets more honey/hive than I do  lol!

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## Dark Bee

We have but little OSR here. I am aware that swarming at the rape or soon afterwards is common and can understand why that most likely occurs. What puzzles me is why supercedure is also common at this time?
If the hives are located well into the OSR field, the yield will be higher than if the hives are some distance outside the field. I wonder if this is because bees go elsewhere in preference to the OSR, I know that being in a rape field can be a distinctly unpleasant experience; pollen and dust everywhere and an unpleasant smell.

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## gavin

Bees will fly long distances for rape when they have to which tends to suggest that they really like it.  I've seen bees exiting a field in Aberdeenshire as a dark cloud approached (was doing some research at the time) in the direction of a large apiary about 10km away.  We had mapped the local apiaries as best we could using local knowledge.  It was spring rape and there wasn't much else around at that time of year for them.  They don't get much of a crop at that distance of course - honey yield falls off over a few km.  In May they mostly had an overabundance of rape nearby.

As far as I can tell supercedure can happen at any time, and the recent poor springs here seem to have caused much early supercedure, whether in a rape area or not.

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## Black Comb

Plenty of supercedure with mine last year. No rape for many miles.

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