# General beekeeping > Starting out >  I need better pollination

## Soft Fruit

We grow a range of fruit, Strawberries, Raspberries, Blueberries and Cherry. We are struggling to get full pollination in our cherry and blueberry crops using bumble bees, so we are looking for either bee keepers to bring their bees to us (we may be willing to pay) or we will have to look at becomming bee keepers our selves. 

We are based south of Aberdeen and have about 6 hectares of cherries and over 30 ha of blueberries, does this sound of interest to anyone, and are there any major problems with this idea.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi 
I think that's about 88 acres or 0.1 sq miles
You won't need to pay there will be plenty beekeepers glad to have a safe place to put some hives on your property
You could easily become beekeepers yourselves by just joining your local association during the winter
You will be able to get all the info and support you need to get started if you decide to become beekeepers
Bees are only likely to be protective really close to the hives and will not sting you away from the hive
The only time you are likely to be stung is if you are opening up a hive or standing right in front of it.
So I would say there will be no problems just keep the bee hives away from the paths

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## fatshark

Welcome to the forum Soft Fruit ... one thing DR didn't mention is the number of hives you might need for efficient pollination of that acreage. A quick Google turned up these figures on the US Beesource forum. I suspect you're already pretty busy running your business without running 1-3 hives per acre as well which looks like it might be necessary. That's a lot of colonies ... I'm also making a lot of assumptions, not least that your blueberries are the same sort they grown in the USA. 

However, don't let this put you off beekeeping ... now is the time to learn by going to an introductory course with your local association. Gavin will be along shortly with a recommendation of who to contact but it might be these people, which might also be where a regular forum poster 'greengumbo' attends.

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## The Drone Ranger

Yes sorry couldn't even guess that hive density figure it depends when blueberries flower and what is competing for the bees attention
If that is after oil seed rape finishes the hives will be bursting with bees looking for something to do with themselves so you would need a lot fewer hives

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## gavin

Hi - yes, fatshark has given you contact information for the nearest local beekeeping association.  There will not be many amateurs that can move significant numbers of hives for pollination but they will be able to help you into beekeeping.

Some thoughts.  In Canada and the NE of the USA beekeepers will move colonies to help pollinate highbush blueberry but I don't think that they are particularly effective at it.  The flowers are more suited to bumble bees.  We have small plots of them at my work and I don't see honeybees working them.  I believe that highbush blueberry is not particularly good for honeybees, which means that colonies don't prosper and therefore a payment is usually required.  A further complication is that the flowering period does overlap with oilseed rape and that acts as a big draw for bees of all kinds, so even siting colonies beside your crop might not work at least while flowering overlaps.  Maybe rape is a little ahead of the blueberries?

If I was you I'd ensure that you have good bumble bee habitat (nesting areas, year-round forage nearby) to boost local bumble bee populations.  That can only help.  

Cherries?  Maybe honeybees are a better bet here, as few pollinators are available in numbers that early in the season.

Rasps?  Beekeepers are often glad to have the chance to move to rasps as there is the prospect of a nice honey crop from them at a time when the early spring rush is quietening down.

However with cherries, blueberries and rasps you do have a good spread of flowering times so maybe having your own bees is an option.

If you'd like to try rented honeybees for your blueberries I'd approach one of the commercial beekeepers to see if they'd be willing - perhaps after trying the local association just in case they could help.  Ask me privately and I can give you contacts.

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## gavin

I have 'Crop Pollination by Bees' by Keith Delaplane and Daniel Mayer in front of me and there's a whole chapter on blueberries.  It is worth getting a copy.  For highbush blueberry (assuming that is what you have) they do self-pollinate but crops will be better with bees.  The mean number of hives per hectare from a variety of studies is 7.5 which means for your 30ha you'd need around 225 colonies (!), presumably scattered around your fields in small groups.  That is quite something, and other than keeping your own (a full time job requiring years of experience!) renting them from a bee farmer (and a relatively well organised one at that)* seems the only realistic option. Or (and) maximise the numbers of wild pollinators on your farm.  The trouble with them is that some bumble bees will prefer to cut through the back of the flower rather than go in legitimately at the front.  With all of these you still have the issue of the preference of bees for oilseed rape when it is competing.

If the rental of honeybees is anything like the rates paid for Californian almond pollination (I just don't know what you'd expect to pay in the UK) then that might cost over £20k.  Still, if it gives you a 25% increase in yield at 1000kg/ha (guessing!) it may still be worth your while.

For cherry, the literature average is 2.5 hives per ha.  Honeybees will be more effective than on blueberry, but still they're unlikely to bring in a honey crop or show much benefit for the beekeeper, so you'd be best considering paying for the pollination service to get someone to go to all the bother of moving them in and reducing whatever other honey crop they'd be getting.

Strawbs?  Nothing much for the beekeeper, but honeybees will help.  Rasps?  See comments above.  Good for the bees, the beekeeper and the rasp farmer.  One word of caution - fruit in tunnels may be less easily worked by honeybees.  They don't cope well with enclosed structures.

Another point to make is that the country to the S of Aberdeen can be rather unforgiving in spring.  If there's a cool breeze honeybees will stay at home but maybe bumble bees would go out and do useful stuff in the flowers.  On the other hand with maybe 20k bees sitting at home there is a lot that they can do during those brief calm 1hr sunny warm spells in the middle of the day. 

*There are about 10 in Scotland but only a couple are likely to be able to deliver bees to Aberdeenshire when you need them and reliably.

Should I set myself up as a pollination consultant?!

G.

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## Soft Fruit

I did try and reply but i think i must of been time out or something, so i will write again.

Thanks for all the replys I will get in touch with my local association to see if it is feasable for us to keep our own bees, in terms of managment time required. 

The bumble bees do break into the side of the blueberry flower as mentioned above, which isnt good for polination. we are also going to try Masson bees next year as a trial, supposibly they are good workers. I think ideally we would rent the bees from someone else as we have quite a lot to do without caring for thousands of bees but if we have to do it as part of producing good yields we will have to do it. I will also try some commercial bee keepers or maybe there is an enterprising aspiring bee keeper reading this post .

Gavin i think you should set your self up as a pollination contractor!!

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## Soft Fruit

also you are right polly tunnel plastic can confuse honey bees, something to be worked on.

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## fatshark

Gavin ... How do honeybees do working open ended polytunnels?  Maybe in Aberdeenshire they're not open ended enough.  I know they don't like being completely closed in.  What about hives with double entrances - one facing 'out' and one 'in'?

Soft Fruit ... Not sure about aspiring beekeepers here ... it's been a long day and I think I'm an expiring one  :Frown:

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## gavin

> Gavin ... How do honeybees do working open ended polytunnels?  Maybe in Aberdeenshire they're not open ended enough.  I know they don't like being completely closed in.  What about hives with double entrances - one facing 'out' and one 'in'?


I've heard of them being used in open-sided polytunnels but am not sure just how well they cope.  Some of the fruit tunnels have a fair part of the side open so maybe they can work these ones, not sure.  I'd maybe park them near the tunnels so that they fly in and fly out.  

In closed tunnels bumble bees can find their way around and avoid panicking after flying up and finding their way blocked.

I would imagine that the blueberries are in the open field but strawbs and rasps not.

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## greengumbo

> Hi greengumbo when do they flower ?
> Are bees remotely interested in them ?


Well this year it was about June they flowered due to the long winter. Then most of the flowers got blown away. 

I've only ever see Carder bumblebees on them.

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## gavin

Interesting, that.  The commercial bumble bees are usually one of the races of _Bombus terrestris_.  They are short tongued bees that can cut through the side or the back of the corolla of flowers that are a bit long and tubular for them to reach the nectaries, when its nectar they're after.  Usually the commercial boxes contain syrup and that may encourage them to raise brood and gather pollen (which they have to do legitimately) which will of course help pollinate, but the robbing activity doesn't help the pollination effort and exposes the nectaries to other would-be pollinators too.

The carder bee is a long-tongued bee that lives in smaller nests in tussocky ground and is thought not to fly as far as some of the other species.  It makes perfect sense to plan for good carder bee habitat in any farm considering scaling up blueberry culture.

Incidently, mason bees may be finished by June if that is a typical time for blueberry to be in flower.

In that other thread, Peter said that blueberries are buzz-pollinated (which is true, bumble bees usually buzz pollinate blueberry) and that honeybees are no use for blueberry (no, they are just less efficient, as the scientific literature confirms).

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## greengumbo

> Interesting, that.  The commercial bumble bees are usually one of the races of _Bombus terrestris_.  They are short tongued bees that can cut through the side or the back of the corolla of flowers that are a bit long and tubular for them to reach the nectaries, when its nectar they're after.  Usually the commercial boxes contain syrup and that may encourage them to raise brood and gather pollen (which they have to do legitimately) which will of course help pollinate, but the robbing activity doesn't help the pollination effort and exposes the nectaries to other would-be pollinators too.
> 
> The carder bee is a long-tongued bee that lives in smaller nests in tussocky ground and is thought not to fly as far as some of the other species.  It makes perfect sense to plan for good carder bee habitat in any farm considering scaling up blueberry culture.
> 
> Incidently, mason bees may be finished by June if that is a typical time for blueberry to be in flower.
> 
> In that other thread, Peter said that blueberries are buzz-pollinated (which is true, bumble bees usually buzz pollinate blueberry) and that honeybees are no use for blueberry (no, they are just less efficient, as the scientific literature confirms).


We have a great diversity of bumbles in our garden - especially this year after our efforts of bee friendly planting came to fruition. The carders are by far the most common though and go for Vetch above everything else. I counted 95 buff-tailed bumbles on a 3 x 2m patch of Phacelia / borage / red clover this year along with tens of _Bombus pratorum_. 

I think blueberries are generally in flower a lot earlier than June. I guess it depends on the variety ?

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## The Drone Ranger

> We have a great diversity of bumbles in our garden - especially this year after our efforts of bee friendly planting came to fruition. The carders are by far the most common though and go for Vetch above everything else. I counted 95 buff-tailed bumbles on a 3 x 2m patch of Phacelia / borage / red clover this year along with tens of _Bombus pratorum_. 
> 
> I think blueberries are generally in flower a lot earlier than June. I guess it depends on the variety ?


If they are flowering at the same time as OSR then they won't get a look in  :Smile: 
In some old books fruit growers used to feed a little syrup with the flowers of the fruit tree steeped in the syrup
The idea was to train the bees to associate the scent with food but whether it worked or not I have my doubts

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