# General beekeeping > Alternative beekeeping >  ZEST hive.

## croc

Other than the few Aberdeenshire and Moray beekeepers I have spoken to about mine, has anyone else come across ZEST hives up here? I started a colony in one three years ago and they seem to be doing quite well, despite the weather issues we have had since I started.
The chap who came up with the idea is a friend of a friend, based in Dorset. He gave me the hive kit and Nuke as an experiment to see how it would work in the Scottish climate.
Have a look at http://thezesthive.com

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## croc

Here are a few pictures of my Zest, when I was building it in 2011. The final one shows frames from a National nuke box between Zest frames.

IMG_1991.jpg

IMG_1994.jpg

IMG_1996.jpg

IMG_1999.jpg

IMG_2000.jpg

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## Mellifera Crofter

There was an article about the plastic frames in BeeCraft recently that interested me - but when I looked at the website I rapidly lost interest.  There was no more information about the frames and the hives look like heavy work.  Are they?
Kitta

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## drumgerry

I also thought it was a bit rich the guy on the website going on about the world's dwindling resources when his Zest frames are made of plastic!  Also not sure what the logic about double depth brood frames is - strikes me as change for change's sake.

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## croc

I was completly new to it when I got the kit, so I've never known anything else. I have found it quite easy to get along with, the bees have survived the weather and I have had some honey. I have got a plastic frame to try, somewhere forgoten about till just now, I like the wooden ones. The depth of the frame is to suit the depth of the hive, you can't build it up with supers like a normal one.
After the initial build you don't do much to the hive structure. The heaviest bit is leveling the ground for the slab base, the blocks are insulation type (think aero chocolate but concrete) so not very heavy.
Like everything else there are pros and cons.
It would be no use at all if you wanted a mobile hive and you can't heft it to judge the contents. If you don't need to move or lift it this isn't a problem. The big advantage is the insulation and strength of it, no sign of vermin and the most a woodpecker would get is a sore head.
The frames don't lend themselves to spinning but you could crush and strain the honey, I like it on the comb so tend to use it like a larder, ie just take a comb as needed.
I have been looking round the threads on here and noticed some discussion on brood position, in mine all the brood is in the top section of the frame and the stores are the bottom.
If anyone would like to come and have a look at it hey would be welcome.
Steve.

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## drumgerry

Well it sounds like it's working for you Steve so I wish you good fortune with it.   How do you go about your swarm control with it?  And have you made increase from it?

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## croc

They haven't shown much swarmy tendancy, possibly because if it starts to look overcrowded the space can be increased by adding frames or by taking a couple of combs of honey off. Maybe building comb gives them something to do.
I re-queened them last year as the old queen was failing, they threw her out not long before the new one I had arranged arrived, I would blame my timing for that rather than theirs.
I haven't made any increase yet, partly because I wasn't sure of a virgin finding any drones other than her brothers. When I first joined beebase there were no other colonys in he 10k radius, now there appear to be three, so I am more hopeful. There is enough space in the zest to run two colonies so I would like to get a local queen and do an artificial swarm, I would be more confident with a wider genepool available.

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## drumgerry

Steve I think you'll find there are a fair few beekeepers around Huntly.  Beebase is very much underused for some reason.  So I wouldn't worry about your virgins getting mated.

Surprised you've not had to perform any real swarm control in 3 years.  The day will come though!

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## croc

I am sure there are more beekeepers about but part of my concern is that I only have he one colony and don't wan't to risk losing it through messing it about, probably being over cautious as a novice. My other thought is that my bees are of Dorset origin and I would like to get some local/native stock going, hence the desire to get a second mated queen and I would prefer to put money in a local beekeepers pocket than a dealers.
Just dug out the plastic frame, will take and post pictures.

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## drumgerry

Just don't worry too much about getting your virgin queens mated - you should be fine.  What might happen though is the temperament of subsequent colonies might be different if your Dorset queens or their daughters are Buckfasts or Carniolans and they mate with native/AMM drones.  You're thinking along the right lines in my opinion re getting local stock.

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## croc

How much variation is there in mated AMM queens? I would like a localy bred one but are there any available and how different would they be from a dealers AMM?

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## drumgerry

That's a bit of a how long is a piece of string question to be honest - depends on the source(s) of the queens.  It wouldn't be impossible to find locally bred AMM queens from genetics which have been present in your area for some time.  But.....(and I include your Dorset bees in this - sorry)...people have been bringing non-local, non-native strains of bees into your area for a long time.  There's a well known Youtube video of French AMM being brought into Craibstone in the 1930s for instance.  I'm also not sure what you mean when you say "dealer".  Most of the reputable breeders of AMM are not big scale dealer-type operations.  The only one I can think of that would fit into the dealer category would be the likes of Bickerstaffs who import what they call AMM from Greece  - queens which are I believe open mated with drones from every other strain which they import.  I'd give them a very wide steer if I were you.

If you do want to source local queens I'd suggest joining your local association.  You really need to get on the local grapevine to hear what's available and who's doing what.

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## croc

I have been thinking about joining Moray for while, I have been to a couple of their winter lecures and enjoyed them also Andy Watson gave me a hand inspecting my colony when I had an arm in a sling after an opertion.
By dealers I meant the various outfits advertising non imported AMM on the internet.
I don't feel too bad about the Dorset bees, (it isn't much closer than France but there is a significant bit of water where Nelson used to hang about.) If the bees were really not suited they wouldn't have done so well, but something in my gut says keep it local.

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## drumgerry

I used to be on the committee of Moray Beeks  - say hi to Andy for me!  I think you should follow your gut Steve!

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## croc

Just been having a look at their website, they were running a queen rearing course today. How's that for bad timing  :Mad:  It would have been useful. Although I suppose it does increase the chance of a few queens becoming avilable.

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## drumgerry

Just work your way through some of the info on the forum Steve  - plenty here to get you started.  Not sure if Moray is as keen on local/AMM queens as you might hope.  I've been away from them a couple of years so not sure how the land lies.

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## croc

I will see what I can find out, thanks.

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## Jon

This is definitely the best forum to keep checking if you are interested in bee breeding and native queens.

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