# General beekeeping > Everything and anything >  Regulations

## Feckless Drone

Hi - noted this statement on Beebase.

Veterinary Medicines Regulations 2013

The Veterinary Medicines Regulations sets out legal text on the manufacture, authorisation, marketing, distribution and post-authorisation surveillance of veterinary medicines. Honey bees are classed as a food producing animal and therefore beekeepers must comply with these regulations. Generic substances such as Oxalic acid or self-made thymol solutions should not be used and beekeepers are liable for prosecution if traces are found during routine honey sampling. It is important to note that some products available on beekeeping manufacturers’ websites are not registered medicinal products and although available, should not be administered to a colony.

Does anyone know if this legislation is current? And, are we really being advised not to use OA or thymol solutions? And why are we allowed to purchase them from a beekeeping manufacturers’ website if we are not supposed to use them?

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## gavin

Hi FD

The advice from the SBA would be: follow the Law!  Our new Technical Data Sheet 12 gives a template for recording what the Law requires us to record:

https://scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/le...al-data-sheets

Yes, we are really being told not to use generic OA or thymol but to use the commercial preparations and the instructions that come with them.  Sale of OA and thymol is justified for uses other than home-made veterinary medicines although a BBKA representative on the VMD's Bee Committee has pushed hard to bear down on such sales.  

Recording such things as batch numbers and the disposal of unused medicine is a legal requirement, hence their inclusion on the form.  Clearly this is all a departure from the casual approaches of the past, but bees are classed as food-producing animals so this is where it is all going.

cheers

Gavin

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## gavin

And yes, the regulations are current.  I doubt that they will change greatly even if those who wish to divorce us from the EU have their way.  Veterinary Medicines are regulated at the UK level whereas bee health is otherwise a devolved matter.  See here for the UK-level guidance: 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/bee-medi...lity-in-the-uk

I was persuaded that the SBA ought to make a better form for recording things as required by the regulations but obviously the NBU one should be acceptable too. 

G.

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## Feckless Drone

> Our new Technical Data Sheet 12 gives a template for recording what the Law requires us to record
> 
> https://scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/le...al-data-sheets


thanks Gavin,

The most recent technical data sheet (no 12) is very useful. I've missed out on this - Our association members and certainly the beginners might benefit from seeing this. I'll arrange that.

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## fatshark

Odd isn't it ... food producing organism, susceptible to a number of notifiable diseases, most (all) of these diseases threaten the health of nearby colonies ... but no registration required and no requirement to actually practice any type of good husbandry. APHA/Defra registration needed if you keep pigs or more than 50 chickens (albeit for different reasons). 

See at least one of you in Kinross tomorrow ... I'll be the one coughing and sneezing at the back.

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## gavin

> Odd isn't it ... food producing organism, susceptible to a number of notifiable diseases, most (all) of these diseases threaten the health of nearby colonies ... but no registration required and no requirement to actually practice any type of good husbandry. APHA/Defra registration needed if you keep pigs or more than 50 chickens (albeit for different reasons). 
> 
> See at least one of you in Kinross tomorrow ... I'll be the one coughing and sneezing at the back.


We'll see about that!  All the coughers and sneezers are being packed into a cupboard where the proceeding will be beamed by CCTV!  

The more exotic of the main speakers is sitting here - ahem - finishing his talks!  Even worse, I'm sitting here 'preparing mine'!

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## Jambo

Hypothetically speaking, how would a trace of oxalic acid in honey differ from a trace of api-bioxal?

Hope a good day had at Kinross today, wasnt able to join unfortunately.

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## Mellifera Crofter

It was worth driving the long trip to Kinross.  The talks were interesting and the day went well - but Im sorry Ewan and Jeff stepped down.  I saw you, Fatshark (and not coughing), but did not even have a chance to wave a hello. 
Kitta

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## fatshark

Sorry I missed you Kitta. There were several I failed to catch up with ... including *lindsay s* who I wanted to introduce myself to. I wasn't coughing too much but I was feeling a bit rubbish. 

Interesting question Jambo ... the trace of oxalic acid in honey might well not change as the chemical is the same in generic oxalic acid and Api-Bioxal. The latter also contains glucose (which will already be present in honey, obviously) and an anti-caking agent (colloidal silica hydrate). There might be a slightly higher OA content, but honey varies anyway. I expect you could identify the powdered silica by mass spectroscopy, but the machines cost half a million quid ...

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## Jambo

Thanks Fatshark.

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## madasafish

> Hypothetically speaking, how would a trace of oxalic acid in honey differ from a trace of api-bioxal?
> .


I treated my hives with OA in the form of Apibioxal in July2017. In August - about 4 weeks later I had a BI visit  and she took honey sample for testing.. The results were negative for all banned substances.. and there were no comments about OA levels..

I suspect in the absence of proof like hive notes, admission or lack of AB invoices, OA is impossible to test for within a few weeks.

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## Adam

> Hypothetically speaking, how would a trace of oxalic acid in honey differ from a trace of api-bioxal?


Nope.
And if you used Oxalic Acid to 'clean the hive' and didn't note it down, it's pretty unlikely anyone would know as I believe it dissipates* readily.

* Not the correct word.

Now what junk do some people put in their smokers that they then liberally puff all over the comb?

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## lindsay s

> Now what junk do some people put in their smokers that they then liberally puff all over the comb?


Ive often thought about that, especially when the supers are filling up with unsealed honey.

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