# General beekeeping > Queen raising >  Last Queen

## Greengage

Last Queen inserted into Apidea box this week fingers crossed weather stays good.

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## Jon

I did a graft on Thursday 31st so even more optimistic than you!

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## Greengage

We have had five good days so far so fingers crossed Il let you know if it was successful. I would be curious as to what would be the latest time to get mated and get a colony through the winter or even an apidea. We still have drones flying.

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## mbc

My last batch went out yesterday,  22 cells as well formed as any during the season.  I hope the drones I see about are in good health and they get a chance to do the necessary.

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## Mellifera Crofter

With this late queen-rearing, Jon and MBC, will you overwinter them in mini nucs, or do you have colonies waiting for them?
Kitta

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## mbc

> With this late queen-rearing, Jon and MBC, will you overwinter them in mini nucs, or do you have colonies waiting for them?
> Kitta


.
For myself the plan is to overwinter them in mini plus hives, some will get used elsewhere and the mini plus boxes they've come from amalgamated to make wintering units but the majority will simply be the last cells on their box and fingers crossed. I don't have high expectations but you never know some might get mated usefully and be good to go next spring.

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## busybeephilip

Kitta, you can overwinter them in Apideas but you will need to have a decent population of bees.  A standard apidea will probably survive into january but will quickly depopulate in bee numbers till they eventually die out.  If you double up an apidea so as to have a bigger population of bees your chances will improve considerably.

If you can its best to make up at least 2 frame nucs, queens laying next month will give enough "winter" bees to allow a better chance of survival.  (in my experience but every beek has his/her differing views )

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## Mellifera Crofter

Thanks MBC and BBP,

It's my first year of attempting to overwinter small mini nucs (only four of them).  I don't have Apideas, but I was planning to move them over to the bigger Mini Plus hives as they're stackable - so I'm glad MBC is also using them.  I also like the idea of putting them into 2-frame nucs, BBP.  That might be a better option on my exposed hill.  I might be able to do that.

Kitta

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## Greengage

who supplies the mini plus Nucs when I Google it I only get Canadian suppliers popping up.

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## Mellifera Crofter

Swienty supplies mini plus nucs.  You can buy the units separately and build up a mini hive with more than one box.  Abelo sells a similar hive that takes the same size frame (half a Dadant super, I think) called Mini Bee Hive, Mating Hive - but, as far as I know, they come in full units: floor, body, feeder, and roof.  I don't know if you can buy the different parts of the hive separately.
Kitta

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## Jon

Some of the Irish suppliers have them GG. I have seen them at the trade stands.

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## Greengage

tks ill check it out

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## The Drone Ranger

Its possible to use Keilers if you have the upper boxes 
What you do is lift the frames up into the upper box and let them draw comb down through both boxes
Its might too late in the season now to work though
Its only worth doing if you already have Keilers because the cost of buying a Keiler and extension would get you something better

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## Mellifera Crofter

> Its possible to use Keilers if you have the upper boxes  ...


I've used little stand-alone mini-nucs this summer, DR, and I've decided they're absolutely horrible to work with.  Whatever I use in future must be stackable and extendable - so, the Kielers will be good too.  I have one unit.  I'll use it next summer.

I've followed Busybeephilip's suggestion and made up nucs for the last two queens from the horrible little mini nucs, and cut out the left-over brood and fitted them into the Mini Plus frames, and gave them to the first queen I've moved over to a Mini Plus a couple of weeks ago.

Kitta

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## The Drone Ranger

fingers crossed kitta  :Smile: 

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

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## mbc

> I've used little stand-alone mini-nucs this summer, DR, and I've decided they're absolutely horrible to work with.


My experience too, I have apideas, kielers and mini plus hives  (those from abelo )and though I've used a few apideas and have put a few batches of cells through the kielers the minI plus is the future for me, I wont be bothering trying to overwinter any kielers but will hopefully have fifty or so mini pluses going into winter.

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## Jon

Do you use you mini plus mini nucs as doubles or singles?

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## busybeephilip

Yeh, the mini plus boxes have got a bit of extra space for a bigger population of bees so better chance of survival through the spring.  with small colonies the bees perish in the spring as old bees die off before the new young are born to replace them which is why you need a good strong pop of bees going into winter.

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## mbc

> Do you use you mini plus mini nucs as doubles or singles?


I use them as doubles (split box with two separate entrances )for queen mating and like to overwinter on single or double brood, this spring I had loads of frames of ivy stores ready to go from the double broods, I'd imagined they'd have turned it all to brood by the time the first cells were ready to go out but not so, maybe because varroa could have been hampering spring expansion.

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## Greengage

On Sunday 8/6 egg laid in cupkit.
10/8 eggs inserted into Queenless colony builder.
13/8 grafts taken.
15/8 qc capped
20/8 cell moved to incubator
23/8 queen emerges.
25/8 queen inserted in Apidea
28/8 opened entrance to Apidea
8/9 no eggs
12/9 no eggs
22/9 no eggs
28/9 Eggs Eggs yippee.
Ah now what ?

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## Poly Hive

I have taken mini nucs through the winter before with reasonable success but that was in the "balmy" east mids. I am not trying this winter as I ran out of time but I am pondering the best way to do it for next season. If I take out the partition for the food compartment they take 6 bars so I have hopes. 

PH

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## Greengage

I gave it to a friend who will take it through winter as I have no room or enough equipment. Think Iv spent the budget on the extractor and need more reading material for senior scientific exam thinking of buying both Celia Davis books and one on Anatomy by Dade. What do you think.

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## Jon

> I have taken mini nucs through the winter before with reasonable success but that was in the "balmy" east mids. I am not trying this winter as I ran out of time but I am pondering the best way to do it for next season. If I take out the partition for the food compartment they take 6 bars so I have hopes. 
> 
> PH


I have got a few through the winter on several occasions but a really cold spell will usually see then end of them. Very handy to have a couple of queens in March or April to replace any drone layers.

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## madasafish

I am trying to overwinter 4 queens in:
1 in Apidea plus upper section with an insulated cover.
2 in a Mann Lake double mini nuc with added insulation
1 in a home made poly mini nuc using 6 x apidea sized frames.

As a test to see which is best..(I suspect home made but wdik)

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## Adam

I've overwintered in three swi-bines gaffa taped together; anything smaller is a real gamble. 

I had the last two queens mated recently - eggs and larvae seen at the weekend.  :Smile:  Both are 'unplanned' as they are supercedure queens; one from a harvested q/c from a (good) old girl that was being replaced, the other is a supercedure from a 2017 queen that was not up to the mark.The colonies they are in are large enough that they should be OK for winter.

I _should_ have left the bees to get on with it replacing the old girl. She is still in her hive and no more supercedure queencells have been made, but she is slowing down and will unlikely be any good in spring.

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