# General beekeeping > Queen raising >  [B]Queens to go[B]

## Kate Atchley

Anyone got some whizzo tricks for transferring young (fast) queens + a few workers into travelling/Butler or whatever cages?

 :Confused: 

Kate

PS: As you see my attempts to embolden the heading don't work. Can't seem to fix it but hey ... Bs first and last!

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## Jon

You could use one of these queen catchers, sometimes known as a pluffer.

http://www.buzzybeeshop.co.uk/page13.html

You put the open end over the queen on the comb and when she starts to walk up the pipe you place the end against the entrance hole in the cage and she walks in.
I pick up workers one at a time by the wings and put them in the introduction cage back end first.

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## Kate Atchley

Thanks. Now I know what those pipes are called! 

Used one for these last week and the queen resolutely refused to walk to the other end, whichever way I turned it! Ah well, practice will doubtless make perfect.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi kate
I've been converted to using one after the crown of thorns meets queen thorax episode (early season marking)
When I put my hand round the tube it is darker than the bulb and that seems to get them up there on bright days

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## Dark Bee

[QUOTE=Kate Atchley;19352]Anyone got some whizzo tricks for transferring young (fast) queens + a few workers into travelling/Butler or whatever cages?

Whether you use a well aired matchbox or a more sophisticated modern piece of technology as instruments of imprisonment, always remember the fundamental principle; bees move upwards and not downwards. Bees will climb up into something but will not climb down into it. In other words if one wants a bee to go into a container, put the opening over the bee and slope the container upwards. Apologies if you are already aware of this, but it is often neglected at first attempts.
I prefer not to touch and get my scent on queens - purely a personal opinion but I believe it can lead to balling and rejection if done immediately before introduction or re introduction to a hive - especially the latter.

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## Kate Atchley

Very helpful. Thanks. The upwards movement is familiar though I may have forgotten it when I was trying this. It's a bit counter-intuitive if you're trying to _fill_ something with a solid creature!
Creating a darker lower part of the tube should help a lot. 
I'm not keen on handling the queens for the reason you mention, Dark Bee. Workers – that's okay – but I try to work queens without adding any scent to them.

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## beejazz

I use the queen catcher tube thingy, also managed to capture a few bees with it as well.  I don't think I'll ever be confident in picking up queens with my fingers, they wriggle so, and I think i may squash or damage her.  The catcher tube is a good piece of kit to have handy. Reminds me, i must wash it out.

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## The Drone Ranger

Hi beejazz
Do you find the queen will walk up the long tube OK
I wonder if its slippier when they are new and get easier once its a bits less shiny

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## gavin

Picking up by the wings is easy. One or two. Buying another bit of kit just means having something else to forget to take to the apiary.  
I have my doubts about the worry about scent too.  These days I'm usually in latex gloves, sometimes bare-handed, and I've never had a problem. Never crushed a queen either although I have let them go by mistake whilst scrabbling for a marker pen or clippers. 

If you want her in a plunger or other cage it is easier to pick her up and move her over. Bees can be reluctant to walk off comb onto an unfamiliar surface, upwards or any other dirention.

It just takes a little practice and then you're sorted for life! Need to dispense with any glove thicker than a mm or so ... 


Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

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## fatshark

> You could use one of these queen catchers, sometimes known as a pluffer.
> 
> http://www.buzzybeeshop.co.uk/page13.html


I've always called these a beekeepers crack pipe ... I even ordered the first one from my local Thorne's agent using that name. Not, I hasten to add, the sign of a misspent youth ...

These certainly help picking up the queen unless she's scampered round to a patch of stores, when things can get very messy. I usually encourage her into the bulb and then quickly place my thumb over the open end. To encourage her into a cage you can then blow her (gently) down the tube.

beejazz ... other than honey I've never washed mine and have used it repeatedly in an afternoon catching and clipping many queens. Didn't seem to get any harder.

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## Jon

> Not, I hasten to add, the sign of a misspent youth ...


Worse still if it is a misspent middle age!

I have never washed my queen crack pipe either and it does not seem to annoy the queens or the workers.
I find it useful for getting a queen out of an apidea especially if she is on the side wall.

At one point I thought it would be better just to pick up queens for marking and clipping but in terms of teaching a group of people, I think the pipe or the plunger cage are good tools for moving queens about, clipping and marking.
A lot of people will never be comfortable picking up or handling a queen but it is important that they learn to clip and mark by themselves without having to phone a friend every time.
So I think these tools have their use.
Not everyone has the same level of dexterity or confidence handling queens and I think moving marking or clipping using one of these tools is a massive improvement over not being able to do it all all.
It is one of the most rewarding things in the queenrearing group when you see people acquire skills they did not have before.

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## Kate Atchley

> ... Need to dispense with any glove thicker than a mm or so ...


I agree re the gloves Gavin.

Somewhere I heard/read that (bee hookers') crack pipes become scented with queen pheromone with use, and so more attractive to queens and bees you are catching. If so, I guess it'd be best not to wash them.

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## Jon

The scent is not that relevant an issue with the pipe. The key skills are (a) placing the pipe end over the queen as she walks on the comb (b) lifting it up when she moves up the wall of the pipe and getting your thumb over the entrance to block her in (c) getting the narrow end of the pipe lined up with a small opening in the introduction cage so that she walks in. Some cages have a better design than others with a little slot just the width of a queen. If the cage opens the entire width, the queen can leave the pipe and get straight out of the cage.

This style is good. When you open the slide to put in the queen it exposes a narrow slot and she cannot slip out the side.  It is opened too much in this picture. The plastic cover should be opened just to the bottom of the slot.
queen cage witrh fondant.jpg

Compare it to this one.
Some of them have a similar design to a matchbox.
cheap-queen-cage.jpg
If you use the pipe the queen can get straight out through the gap.

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## drumgerry

Loading a queen from the pipe into a JZ BZ queen cage available here http://buzzybeeshop.co.uk/page5.html is really easy.  Just let her walk down the pipe and into the long end of the queen cage.  Plug with candy behind her and job done.

Or plug the long end with candy and let her walk through the pipe and into the hole beside the long end.  Snap the the little cover into the hole and job done.

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## Jon

I have never used those JZ BZ cages. Do they work well?

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## mbc

> I have never used those JZ BZ cages. Do they work well?


They do work well, very handy cages indeed for posting, introduction and storage of queens.

My top tip for catching and loading attendant workers quickly is to pick them off a brood frame when they are head down having a feed, they dont see you coming !

re. the crack pipe, lol, you'd have to be a heavy smoker and quite wealthy to fill that bowl.

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## drumgerry

I really like them Jon.  They are easy to use, well designed and cheap - for straightforward queen introduction where you're confident of success eg to a nuc.  Here's a couple of better photos of them.  There's a little break off tab at the bottom which creates a single queen excluder slot if you remove it.

JZBZ1.jpgJZBZ2.jpg

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## Jon

fatshark is clearly a man of considerable means and an all consuming addiction.

I like the look of those JZ BZ cages Gerry. I'll order a few and give them a try.

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## mbc

If you have a look at the buzzybee shop website ( I have always found Mark to be extremely helpfull, but it may take a while to get an answer to your emails because I dont think its his main line of work) they sell useful accessories to make them even handier, I like using the battery boxes for transporting lots of queens safely separated and secure.

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## drumgerry

I'll second that mbc.  Great shop and brilliant service.  In fact just bought 50 cages from there!

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## Jon

I second that as well. I buy all the stuff for our queenrearing group there. Highly recommended.

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## The Drone Ranger

> Picking up by the wings is easy. One or two. Buying another bit of kit just means having something else to forget to take to the apiary.  
> I have my doubts about the worry about scent too.  These days I'm usually in latex gloves, sometimes bare-handed, and I've never had a problem. Never crushed a queen either although I have let them go by mistake whilst scrabbling for a marker pen or clippers. 
> 
> If you want her in a plunger or other cage it is easier to pick her up and move her over. Bees can be reluctant to walk off comb onto an unfamiliar surface, upwards or any other dirention.
> 
> It just takes a little practice and then you're sorted for life! Need to dispense with any glove thicker than a mm or so ... 
> 
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk


I crowned a queen with the crown of thorns early season
I can pick them up for marking etc
The tube is safer and better though plus you can keep the queen in there a while safely
So if you are rearranging combs for Snelgrove or Demaree its great
I'm a convert, but if I was to forget it I only have to walk back to the house
Stick one on the Christmas list Gavin price wise they are daylight robbery  :Smile:

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## Dark Bee

[QUOTE=The Drone Ranger;19415]I crowned a queen with the crown of thorns early season


A believe "Baldock Cage" is another name for this item. Now DR there is an opportunity to display your erudition to the less well informed.

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## The Drone Ranger

Fine Dark Bee 
First I'll have to look up erudition but I am suffering from ennui due to the unseasonable weather

Had to google it but I see this is the "proper " name for the deadly enemy of queens also known as the crown of thorns
Still wondering about erudition

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## Kate Atchley

[QUOTE=Dark Bee;19419]


> A believe "Baldock Cage" is another name for this item.


Ahhh ... learn something every day .... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/clipmark.html.

Wet day, need amusement ... try this!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVY9H5zkRf8 (Handy for showing beginners how not to do it!)

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## The Drone Ranger

[QUOTE=Kate Atchley;19424]


> Ahhh ... learn something every day .... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/clipmark.html.
> 
> Wet day, need amusement ... try this!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVY9H5zkRf8 (Handy for showing beginners how not to do it!)


Gee Willikers that guy should get a better cage, a better pen ,and some tranquilisers

Kate have you been using your Horsley boards this year ?

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## drumgerry

If I had made such an arse of that as he did the last thing I'd be doing is putting it on Youtube!  

Not sure what all the fuss is about marking with a crown of thorns tbh.  I just blow the bees away from the queen with my deadly human breath and pin her down.  Mark her, let her walk around under it a bit till it dries then let her go

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## Kate Atchley

[QUOTE=The Drone Ranger;19425]


> Kate have you been using your Horsley boards this year ?


DR I have been concentrating on the queen rearing (with loads of help from you guys) so have not used the Horsley boards this year. Another member has borrowed a couple to try. Nothing to report yet.

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## Dark Bee

[QUOTE=Kate Atchley;19424][QUOTE=Dark Bee;19419]

Ahhh ... learn something every day .... http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/clipmark.html.

I had not realised that Dave C. had commented on the item. What he shows is the original cage, a circle of gramophone needles sticking out of a ring of paxolin or Bakelite. The modern product made for pennies in China is far inferior and very clumsy to use.
Baldock is a town on the Great North Road (A1) perhaps 30 miles north of London, I have often wondered what is the connection with the eponymous cage ?

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## Black Comb

Thornes sell them with a piece of foam to block the large end.

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## The Drone Ranger

[QUOTE=Kate Atchley;19427]


> DR I have been concentrating on the queen rearing (with loads of help from you guys) so have not used the Horsley boards this year. Another member has borrowed a couple to try. Nothing to report yet.


I got some acrylic sheet and some thin plate with the intentions of making a few but have not done anything yet
I followed Jon's good advice on a queenless cell raiser but those little monkeys were building a lot of brace comb on the cell frame
So when the Snelgrove boards went in I just bled the flying bees off a strong one (once only) and used that instead
It occurred to me that in extremis with the Snelgrove you can re direct some bees back up to the other box.
Can that work with the Horsley by re-opening the Queen excluder via half closing the entrance ?

Hows the queen rearing going  :Smile:

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## The Drone Ranger

> If I had made such an arse of that as he did the last thing I'd be doing is putting it on Youtube!  
> 
> Not sure what all the fuss is about marking with a crown of thorns tbh.  I just blow the bees away from the queen with my deadly human breath and pin her down.  Mark her, let her walk around under it a bit till it dries then let her go


Hi Drumgerry
Many years I have used the one Dark Bee describes 
It has refused to come out of my pocket a crucial moments
Has caused injury to various appendages 
But I have stuck with it through thin and thin 
on flat comb it is great less so on uneven stuff
But the pluffer or whatever its called has won me over and a plunger cage lets me get perfect marking every time
I could see you with your sets of coloured numbered disks cataloguing and marking all your AI queens
Oh yes ! that's the future that is --- Garlic Bread

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## Kate Atchley

[QUOTE=The Drone Ranger;19432]


> So when the Snelgrove boards went in I just bled the flying bees off a strong one (once only) and used that instead
> It occurred to me that in extremis with the Snelgrove you can re direct some bees back up to the other box.
> Can that work with the Horsley by re-opening the Queen excluder via half closing the entrance ?
> 
> Hows the queen rearing going


Yes, you can have the Horsley slide positioned to close the entrance + opening the Qx panel, or vice versa, or some of both. I think for cell finishing the Qx panel might be a bit small (on mine at least), not allowing a large enough flow of bees upwards. The entrance is too small to provide as the only entrance on the 'front' of the hive for a full colony. Cloake board designs are better for that.

As for my queen rearing ... watch this space. No absconding as far as I can see, but have resisted opening the mini-nucs before the queens might be laying which could be this coming week. With this nasty weather that may take longer than I'd hoped. The first few days when they might have been out mating were glorious so some may already be fully mated but my guess is that most of them may be half-mated, as it were. Will let you know.

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## Black Comb

Do you have a peek to check the fondant?

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## Kate Atchley

Yes, have peeped enough to know their supply will last at least till end of this coming week. So don't have to feed again for now.

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## nemphlar

That chap marking his queen was hilarious, took me back to days before tipex when I tried to use the proper red marker and dropped a glob that covered her wings. She survived and lasted 5 years

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## The Drone Ranger

> That chap marking his queen was hilarious, took me back to days before tipex when I tried to use the proper red marker and dropped a glob that covered her wings. She survived and lasted 5 years


Mummified ??
Thanks for the Apidea price tip bought 10 saved about £40

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## The Drone Ranger

I posted two queens out the day before yesterday
Unfortunately they have been held up 
It seems Post Office unofficial strike action or something 
They have a good number of attendants each ,more than I would normally have (weather was bad)
How long do you think they will survive in our wonderful postal system ?
Has anyone had any experience of queens and bees spending a long time in cages with only royal fondant to live on

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## Jon

They should be ok. The key thing is live attendants.

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## The Drone Ranger

> They should be ok. The key thing is live attendants.


That's good Jon
Fingers crossed
They have plenty attendants because it was windy and a not very nice day
I scooped up a few more bees than I had intended using the travel cage like a matchbox
The Post Office insisted on a label saying "Live Insects" or "Live Honey bees"
That concerned me because to some people that just draws attention giving them the opportunity to be idiots
It's like putting "Fragile" It almost invites some people to start throwing it around

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## The Drone Ranger

they made it alive after a full week in the care of the post office delivery system

Is the forum dead now for the winter ?

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## gavin

It is simply exercising restraint. 

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