# General beekeeping > Starting out >  How to protect new hive?

## Dovya

OK, I've got bees, but the hive's falling to pieces, so I'm going to treat them to a new one (and I expect some type of appreciation from them ...). How can I protect the hive, what sort of varnish should I use? I've got cuprinol, but have heard that it's not helpful to the bees. Any advice most welcome!

----------


## gavin

What is your new one made of?  Proper Western Red Cedar and you could leave it untreated.  On my cheaper Thornes wood hives I use linseed oil, rubbed over and left to soak in.  Some use stronger preservative.   

Thornes now sell a beehive paint which has natural oils and seems bee-friendly.

----------


## Calum

i make an emulsion of wax und turps, makes an excellent weather resistant outer coat. I use a heat gun to get it right into the wood.
or molten wax painted thinly straight on if in a rush to use it + heat gun. Propolis dissolves in alchohol or spititus for coating the inside so they feel right at home inside and out!

----------


## Neils

I use Cuprinol Shades on my wood hives, a water based, breathable, weather proofing and in a nice range of colours  :Big Grin:  . It's not officially "safe for bees" so use at your own risk but I know a few people who've used it for a number of years and I'm now in my third year without any apparent ill effects.

As Gavin says, you don't need to treat Western Red Cedar and you definitely shouldn't use Varnish.  Whatever you use, it should be breathable,  treat the outside surfaces only and I'd leave them for a week or so before sticking bees in to make sure it's dried out properly.

If you use (Thornes) seconds kit especially it's worth painting everything before you start to put it together, their seconds kit tends not to fit together very well (i've got a couple of boxes I need to take a chisel to this year, ho hum, you get what you pay for etc etc).

----------


## AlexJ

I use Cuprinol Ducksback which appears to be insect friendly on plywood hives (having sealed edges with wood glue first).

----------


## Neils

> I use Cuprinol Ducksback which appears to be insect friendly on plywood hives (having sealed edges with wood glue first).


 I've had that recommended before but was told they'd stopped making it.

I might be wrong but I understood that Cuprinol were no longer officially describing any of their products as "insect/bee friendly" but that seemed more down to a legislation change (I think) than a change in fomula of the products themselves.

----------


## AlexJ

> I've had that recommended before but was told they'd stopped making it.
> 
> I might be wrong but I understood that Cuprinol were no longer officially describing any of their products as "insect/bee friendly" but that seemed more down to a legislation change (I think) than a change in fomula of the products themselves.


Still made as far as I'm aware - fair point EU legislation meant changes to the active ingredients in the paint; they haven't tested the new formulation on beehives and can't comment on it yet.  That notwithstanding it keeps out the rain, bees don't turn their nose up at it and they appear healthy enough as always - DYOR Dovya

----------


## gavin

Excellent question and an excellent set of responses.

If you go the linseed oil route you will need to reapply every couple of years.

Peter Edwards, sometime poster here, treated all his boxes by immersion in a boiling tub of beeswax - a bit like frying chips he said.  Not one for a couple of hives, or for anyone without industrial PPE.

----------


## chris

I use a beeswax/linseed oil mix-5%. The first time I ever tried it, I didn't know what proportion to use, and ended up adding far too much wax. Had to melt it in with a blow torch, and even then there were large patches of wax that the bees worked months later. :Embarrassment:  
Calum, I like your idea of propolis inside. I'll give it a try next time I treat.

----------


## gavin

I see that Ducksback contains waxes.  Is there a risk that the bees may collect some of it and incorporate into comb - as Chris has noticed for very waxy mixes?

----------


## Adam

I leave cedar alone and I am sure that it will last longer than me. Other stuff has a permeable sadolin on it of various colours dependant on if I find them on the 'whoops' shelf. I have some plywood boxes which I try to keep indoors in the winter as it doesn't appear to last too well.

----------


## Rosie

I think Peter Edwards used paraffin wax rather than beeswax for frying his hives and swears by it.  My hives are almost all cedar and I leave them untreated for a few seasons and then use shed and fence treatment.  I usually  retreat every 3 years (a third each year) but I missed it last winter so now I'm on a 4 year cycle.  If you treat new cedar it does not absorb the solution very well.  If you don't treat old cedar, although it does not rot, it seems to get porous and heavy in wet weather.

Beginners often like to treat wood when it's new to keep it looking good and to prevent it from turning grey so quickly.  I usually suggest raw linseed oil for that as it protects the wood without sealing it.  I would expect it to be quite harmless for the bees too.

Rosie

----------


## Mellifera Crofter

> ... Peter Edwards, sometime poster here, treated all his boxes by immersion in a boiling tub of beeswax - a bit like frying chips he said. ...





> I think Peter Edwards used paraffin wax rather than beeswax for frying his hives and swears by it. ...


Here is a link to Michael Bush's wax-dipping method (Bushfarms).  It sounds like Peter Edwards' method, but he includes 'gum rosin'.  I suppose that is gum resin - but I have no idea where to find it (apart from small quantities at printing suppliers), or whether it is an important ingredient.

Kitta

----------


## Herman86

I use the emulsion, too. Try to avoid chemical solutions and always opt for natural and organic decisions, and your bees would appreciate that!  :Smile: 

Herman: Like Frank the other day, I've removed the inappropriate link in your post to some picture editor site.  Could you post without it please?  Thanks ....

----------


## madasafish

I use a wax based fence coating (no preservatives), add rape seed oil (sold as Vegetable oil at £1.50 per litre local Tesco) and paint on.Lasted 3 years so far on pallet wood...

----------


## Bumble

Piggy-backing on the 'hive falling to pieces" bit of the starting post, we need to repair one side of one of our hives. A neighbour demolished a collapsing shed and gave us some of the timber for our woodburner. It's teak. Some is good enough to re-use. There might be enough for repairs and a super or two.

Do bees and teak mix?

----------


## GRIZZLY

Bees and teak mix alright but you ain't 'arf going to make your hive HEAVY.I once made some hives from some nice Larch boards - very durable but so heavy I could hardly lift them.I.m surprised if your neibours shed collapsed if it is made of teak,could it have been made of afromosia -a teak look alike but not very durable as it doesn't contain the natural oils like teak.

----------


## Bumble

> could it have been made of afromosia -a teak look alike but not very durable as it doesn't contain the natural oils like teak.


I didn't know that, thanks.

The shed collapsed because the floor rotted and a lot of the vertical supports gave way, they decided that repairing it wasn't an option. Many of the boards are in good enough condition to re-use, but maybe we should think of another project.

----------

